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"Made in the USA" versus "Made in China"

334K views 338 replies 101 participants last post by  Tony-chicago  
#1 · (Edited)

(Note! the post below is the state of the industry in January 2013.
For the most recent update, Autumn 2018, click here.)


I have been tracking this for a few years now..
here is the update for 2013:

The State of Snowblower evolution, 2013 model year.

Tecumseh snowblower engines, up to 2008, were always made in the USA. Briggs & Stratton engines were made in the USA for the majority of its history. Around the year 2000 (perhaps earlier in the 90’s) Briggs began their smaller gas engines in China.

Up until 2008, probably 90% of snowblowers were 100% American-made, both the snowblower body, and the engine both. Tecumseh had the majority of the snowblower engine market before 2008, and Briggs was still making their larger engines in the USA. Only the smaller Briggs engines were made in China.

Tecumseh pulled out of the small gas engine business in 2008. 2009 was the last model year that snowblowers were commonly found with Tecumseh engines on them. (2009 model year were machines that went on sale in the Autumn of 2008)

Since 2008, Production of small gas engines has moved to China in a huge way.
In 2008, perhaps 90% of snowblowers had American-made engines on them.
Only 5 years later, in 2013, probably 90% have Chinese-made engines. And the percentage of American-made engines continues to drop. Soon it will likely be 100% Chinese engines on all snowblowers, lawnmowers, garden tractors, and anything with a small gas single-cylinder engine.

Brand names with American-made snowblower bodies, and *some* American-made engines:
(the last remaining 100% made in the USA snowblowers)

Ariens - Three models remaining in the 2013 lineup with American-made Briggs engines:
12V Pro 32, Platinum 30, Deluxe 30.
The rest of the models have Chinese engines.

Beginning this year, 2013 model year, "Made in the USA" stickers have appeared on engines of Ariens machines, which have the USA-made engines:
Image

(im not sure if Ariens added the stickers, or if Briggs did.)
But this is the first model year those stickers have been seen on those engines, a handy spotting feature!

Snapper - (made by Briggs & Stratton)
Three models remaining in the 2013 lineup with American-made Briggs engines:
M1529E, H1528E, H1730E.
The rest of the models have Chinese engines.

Simplicity - (made by Briggs & Stratton)
Four models remaining in the 2013 lineup with American-made Briggs engines:
H1528E, H1730E, P1524E, P1728E.
The rest of the models have Chinese engines.

The Briggs brands are using the old Simplicity and Murray designs for their snowblowers.
Since 2005, the Briggs names have included Simplicity, Snapper, Murray, John Deere,
and Brute. John Deere and Murray snowblowers are no longer being made. And Brute
is 100% Chinese engines.

Husqvarna - The evolutionary successor to the old AYP snowblower line.
One model remaining with an American-made Briggs engine.
14527E
The rest of the models have Chinese engines.
Husqvarna also makes Polan snowblowers, Poulan has 100% Chinese engines.


That makes Eleven total snowblower models in 2013, from three manufacturers (Ariens, Briggs and Husqvarna) that are still 100% American made, both the snowblower, and the engine both. And the percentage drops every year. Soon it is likely we will have all Chinese engines on all snowblowers.


Brand names with American-made snowblower bodies, and all Chinese-made engines, (as of 2013)

MTD brands (Cub Cadet, Troy-Bilt, Yard Machines, most Craftsman) - all Chinese engines. (starting in 2012)

Toro - All Chinese Engines. (starting in 2013)


Brand names that are 100% made in China:
In addition to Chinese engines on American-made snowblowers, we are now also seeing 100% Chinese made snowblowers, both the snowblower body, and the engine both. The following brands are known to be 100% Chinese built:

Stanley
World Lawn
Snow Beast
Huskee
Powerland
Snow Joe

The 100% American made snowblower (and lawnmower, and riding mower, and garden tractor) is fading fast..get them while you still can!

Which engines are the remaining American-made engines? Only three US-made snowblower engines remain:

Briggs & Stratton 305cc 1450 Series
Briggs & Stratton 342cc 1550 Series
Briggs & Stratton 342cc 1650 Series.

ALL other snowblower engines, including all Briggs engines except those three models, are made in China..(the exception being perhaps Honda snowblowers, who perhaps still makes some Honda engines in Japan, and China as well.)

But there are definitely only three remaining US-made engines.
(source for that info is “Snowmann” on the forums, who is known to work for Ariens,
He posted that info about the Briggs engines a few years ago.)

Other sources: Ariens 2013 brochure, Toro 2013 brochure, Cub Cadet brochure, other MTD brand webpages, Briggs & Stratton brand (Simplicity, Snapper) webpages, Husqvarna webpage.

Disclaimer 1 - yes, I know..someone will bring it up! ;) I am aware that when I say “100% American-made snowblower, both the snowblower body and engine both” that is not *literally* 100% true! Because some *parts* are made overseas..The American-made Briggs engine likely has parts made in China inside of it, and perhaps the “Made in America” snowblowers do as well! But im not concerned about that.
This is my criteria:
If its made in a factory on US soil, by US workers, then im calling it “Made in the USA”
If its made in a factory on Chinese soil, by Chinese workers, then im calling it “Made in China”
Im not concerned with the exact origin of every last nut and bolt.

Disclaimer 2 - the above information is likely incomplete! Especially the “100% made in China snowblower” data..there are probably several brand names I am missing. Also, The above list primarily focuses on 2-stage snowblowers, because it is believed that 100% of Single-Stage snowblower engines are made in China, and have been for some time.

If anyone has any corrections or additions to this list, please let me know!
I have been tracking snowblower evolution since 2009, (and all the way back to 1960! With my Ariens webpage) and I will try to update this list every January.

Thanks,
Scot
 
#2 ·
It's unfortunate but a fact of life, things once made here are now made elsewhere along with the jobs of creating them.
There's no single cause, but every consumer has to accept part of the blame. Every stockholder getting a dividend check is another. Every exec that is getting a fatter paycheck becuse of jobs no longer done here have a piece in this puzzle too.
It goes all up and down the food chain.
 
#317 ·
Unfortunately, you are so totally correct. Most people don't look past their wallets to see the truth, but you do.
 
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#3 ·
And we wonder why there is no jobs any more. We are spoiling are selves out of jobs by buying crap like mtd stuff . So briggs to keep cost down are out sourcing every thing. Another rising cost is unions. Heck if your a union worker it's hard to get fired. I know if I was drinking my lunch like those jeep workers and showed up at a client's house id loose that job.
 
#4 ·
sad to see it. Btw I was doing some research and Is Tecumseh (whats left of it) owned by the same company that creates lct engines. I have been trying to find out where they are manufactured.
 
#5 ·
Sscotsman, Thanks for all the great information on the different makes, models and engines of snowblowers that are made here and abroad. Since I'm more of a "Here" guy, this info will help me out the next time I'm in the market for another snowblower:).

As far as what 69ariens and HCBPH said, I couldn't have said it better. Just for giggles, the next time you're in your local store, go to the flag section and see where your American flag was made. It may surprise you:eek:.
 
#6 ·
Hey scot. Quick question. I do remember somewhere where I read that Ariens even had some Robin/Subaru engines on them. I checked them out and noticed they have manufaturing plant(s) in japan and a usa plant. Do you happen to know if the engines they had on the Ariens were American made?

I can sort of see why they took them off. The are very expensive engines. I have one on my Go-kart and I'm going to see if I can see on it where it was made.
 
#7 ·
Ariens did/does have a few models with the Subaru engine..starting in 2010, they have had a few models each year, and this year the Subaru engines are on the "power brush" models:

Power Brush

I dont know where they are made! have never seen any data on that..
Two Subaru engines are listed, 169cc and 265cc.
I will try to see if i can find out where they are made!

Subaru webpage for the engines:

Subaru Robin

They make no mention of where they are made..
But good question! I will try to find out..
Scot
 
#8 ·
#9 · (Edited)
It seems to be a fact of life that we are in a global economy. Honda manufactures a number of outdoor products, and has plants in the USA. I've gotten parts from them that are labeled "Made in the USA", and others that are labeled "Assembled in the USA." I've also seen labels from them that say "Assembled in Japan from parts made in the USA."
 
#10 ·
For the record, here's Honda:

HS520A, HS520AS (single-stage): Engines are cast in Swepsonville, NC. Complete model assembly is also done in Swepsonville. Canadian and other export versions are also manufactured in Swepsonville.

All others (2-stage wheel and track models HS724, HS928, HS1132, HS1136i): Engines are cast in Thailand, shipped to Japan, final assembly in Japan for global delivery to Honda distributors.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.
 
#11 ·
Well, got some interesting news!
Briggs & Stratton posted this news release in April 2012:

"Briggs & Stratton also announced that production of horizontal shaft engines currently made in the Auburn, Alabama plant will move to the Company’s existing production facility in Chongqing, China or be sourced from third parties in Southeast Asia. The Company previously moved smaller horizontal shaft engines to the Chongqing, China plant in 2007 where these types of engines can be made more competitively."
source: Briggs & Stratton Corporation Announces Strategic Actions and Cost Reductions : 01 : 2012 : News Articles : Briggs & Stratton News | BASCO : BASCO

I had assumed that *probably* meant that the last US-made Briggs snowblower engines would no longer be made in the USA..but it wasn't completely clear if those specific Snowblower engines were made at that plant, (Auburn, Alabama) or if they were made at a different Briggs plant in the US..It wasnt completely clear if the Briggs announcment would mean the end of the US-made *snowblower* engines specifically, those three models discussed above..

But now I have confirmation..

yes, it does in fact refer to those engines..

Which means..The last USA-made snowblower engines, ever! were last made in 2012!
This model year, 2013 model year (snowblowers that went on sale in the Autumn of 2012) will almost certainly be the last ever 100% Made in the USA snowblowers..

Many snowblower bodies will continue to be made in the USA (Ariens, Toro, the MTD brands, the Briggs brands, and Husquvarna) but not the engines..

(actually, im still not sure about the Subaru engines! I dont think they are made in the USA..but I will post if/when I find out..)

Scot

"Nobody told me there'd be days like these,
Strange days indeed -- strange days indeed.."
-John Lennon
 
#12 · (Edited)
Ok! got all the data now..

The Subaru snowblower engines are made in Japan or China.
(depending on the size and model)
Only larger Subaru engines have been made in the USA, for things like snowmobiles,
but not for snowblowers.

So thats the final rundown then..
its official..
as of the end of 2012, there are no longer *any* snowblower engines made in the USA.
and by extension, the era of the "100% made in the USA snowblower" has now ended..
This model year, 2013 model year, is the last..
a few are out there for sale this winter, (models and manufacturers discussed in the first thread)
but next year, probably not..

As for me, someday I will own one of these last models! :)
but not this year..I will have to wait 10 years or so and buy one used! ;)
But I will get one, eventually..

I will also check the new models next winter, just to confirm..
but its pretty clear this is the winter it finally happened..

thanks,
Scot
 
#13 ·
Looks like you did a lot of digging. To bad to see them all move on except for the ss honda. Maybe someday they will come back or some new company will show up out of nowhere and create some usa engines.
 
#14 ·
Engines from China

Guys,

I saw your thread and there was a question about a Subaru Engine. I bought one to replace the 6 hp Tecumseh that did a great job for many years on a Cyclone Leaf Rake.

This is typically excellent designed piece that starts, idles and runs just like you want. It's overhead cam and overhead valve. It is called an EX17 and is 6hp with 170cc displacement........it too is made in China. Subaru Robin - Features and Benefits

QR
 
#18 ·
company's use to have loyalty to their workers now days companys just want the work done by the cheapest labor they can get and these company's don't always have to ship work over seas to get cheap labor
 
#20 ·
yep, I agree..
I have a 1971 Ariens, a 1964 Wheel Horse tractor, and im looking for a 1961 Cub Cadet tractor..I will never, ever ever ever ever ever, put a Chinese engine on any of them! (especially those cheap Harbor Freight engines..those are doubly insulting to the heritage of my machines! Chinese *and* junky quality..the exact opposite of everything they stand for..)

It would be like restoring a 1965 Ford Mustang, and dropping a Hyundai engine in it..

Scot
 
#22 ·
Yeah unfortunately the jobs will move to another third world part of a very poor country to find the cheapest labor at all costs but the plant they build will be superior.
Sad sad sad.

I have a question....are the briggs and stratton parts(friction disc...worm gear...etc) are they still made here in the usa or shipped from china,thailand???
 
#24 ·
I have a question....are the briggs and stratton parts(friction disc...worm gear...etc) are they still made here in the usa or shipped from china,thailand???
I am not absolutely 100% certain, but im 90% certain that the Briggs snowblower bodies (everything except the engines) are still made in the USA..the current Snapper and Simplicity lines are based on the old Simplicity patterns (for the larger 2-stage machines) and the old Murray patterns (the smaller 2-stage machines)..this also applied to John Deere snowblowers from 2005 to 2012. (JD snowblowers are no longer being made, as of last winter)

Although many smaller parts are now made in China..nuts and bolts and what-not..so its quite hard to know where everything is made anymore..but as far as I know, the Snapper, Simplicity and Brute snowblowers (the "briggs brands") are still made in the USA..with US-parts and designs..

(all bets are off with single-stage machines however..they could be 100% Chinese made by now for all I know..)

Scot
 
#25 ·
Parts

I've seem probably more than 50% of the Tecumseh parts I buy (since Briggs bought them out after bankruptsy) are labeled from overseas so I'm guessing it's the same for parts for Briggs engines etc. Unfortunately unless something happens, I expect more and more items to come from overseas as time progresses.
 
#26 ·
I dont think current Tecumseh parts have anything to do with Briggs..
The Tecumseh name is being used under license by LCT, who makes engines in China.
There are new "snow king" engines being made, which was the name of the snowblower engine line Tecumseh used to make in the USA..but the new Snow King engines are made in China by LCT, and are not based on US-made Tecumseh engine designs at all...
only the name is being used..

So the Tecumseh name is still out there, and parts are still being made..
but anything new is coming from China, and im 90% sure (but not 100% sure) that it has nothing to do with Briggs..

Scot
 
#27 · (Edited)
Tecumseh parts

Pretty sure the last set of Tecumseh points and condensor I bought were labeled Briggs and virtually every Tecumseh carb kit I've bought is labeled Briggs. I thought Briggs bought the rights to at least the replacement parts for the Tecumsehs back around 2009 or so, same with Murray and a number of other companies over the years. Whether they still have it all I don't know. I also know they label things like bushings, bearings, cables, etc for alot of things that come from overseas for various models of parts I've gotten.

Seems like almost every part I've bought lately is labled Briggs, no matter what it is. About the only other brand I see much of, if not Briggs then it's Stens.

Not saying they make them only that they label them.
 
#96 ·
Pretty sure the last set of Tecumseh points and condensor I bought were labeled Briggs and virtually every Tecumseh carb kit I've bought is labeled Briggs. I thought Briggs bought the rights to at least the replacement parts for the Tecumsehs back around 2009 or so.
That just isn't true. Tecumseh was originally sold off to Platinum Equity and operated under the "Tecumseh Power" name. It was then sold to Certified Parts Corporation and the Peerless transmission end of the business was sold off to Husqvarna (who incidentally bought out AYP) The parts are still made by certified parts corporation, they have nothing, nothing to do with Briggs & Stratton. They are however closely tied to LCT (Liquid Combustion Technology) I dealt with this stuff on a daily basis for a while, as recently as August, trust me when I say no Tecumseh parts are coming in B&S packaging.

ARE THE THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS ABOUT CHINESE MANUFACTURED ENGINES CAUSED BY A TRACK RECORD OF POOR QUALITY & MECHANICAL PROBLEMS ??? OR IS IT THE POLITICAL ISSUE???
It's a political issue. Those cheap Chinese engines, even the ones like Powermore that aren't really a Honda clone are for the most part much better than the Tecumseh Snow Kings they replaced. They start better, run smoother, quieter, cooler, etc. You hardly ever have to touch the carburetor. The biggest issue I have with them is parts availability and trying to figure out exactly who made the engine you have. The parts are cheap though, you might have to buy a whole head instead of a valve, but it's so cheap the average person wont care.

FRANKLY WHEN I SHELLING OUT MONEY FOR A TOOL, I WANT THE BEST ENGINEERED PRODUCT AVAILABLE. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR OPINIONS.:confused:
That's the way I always looked at it, I really don't care where it's made, but I want the best product.

Anyone have an "old" Chinese engine? How old?

How many have had one fail?

Has nobody had to pull a Chinese carb apart and clean it out?

Is OHV really THAT much better? How so?

Crank bearings vs bushings: Never seen a bushing fail so why are bearings important?
See above, I've seen the odd Chinese engine fail, it doesn't matter what series of engines you have or where they were made, some will fail, whether it be through abuse, negligence, manufacturer defects or assembly errors. Tecumseh Snow Kings though had an abnormally high failure rate, especially the last few years they were made. Beyond the typical tecumseh throw rod problem (granted these are usually from either low oil or a frozen governor linkage causing the engine to over-rev) and typical carb issues, Tecumseh at some point switched to an electric starter gear that was hardened too much (you can identify they pretty easily, they'll have a cobalt blue tint to them) the teeth break off the starter gear where they get stuck to the 3 magnets inside the flywheel for the stator, they they get wedged between the magnet and the stator ripping the mounting boses for the stator out of the block and letting the oil drain out. This didn't happen on a few machines, it happened on a large number of machines. The only thing Tecumseh had that I miss is a good dealer network, if the Chinese can figure that out you'll never stop them.
 
#50 · (Edited)
hmm..could be Briggs/Tecumseh then!
who knows..I heard back in 2008/2009 that LCT had bought the rights to Tecumseh not Briggs..but perhaps that was correct then, but a few years later its now Briggs?
its a very difficult industry to keep track of..


Scot
Hello, just finished researching for a snow blower, this info is straight from Ariens, that LCT known as Liquid Combustion Technology an American Company, continues to build off some of the old Tecumseh snow engines.....so I expect they are still in the mix with Tecumseh somehow, LCT is also building some the the engines for the Ariens snow blower line.....
 
#33 ·
Scot,
Any info on those new 420cc "Briggs made" engines found on the new Ariens Pro models? I know they are made in China, but was of the understanding they are still 100% Briggs designed/made. I emailed a guy I know who works at Briggs in the Milwaukee, WI plant in R&D and this was his reply:

That 25 c.i. ,21 ft/lb engine is a decedent of a generator spec engine that came out 2 years ago. It is no way affiliated with another Chinese engine mfg however. We build it in our plant and to our engineering and r&d specs like any other Briggs engine. It has more in common with a Honda 420 cc then anything else. But that engine is an over built, good running, tough engine!
After looking around though it seems these 420cc "Briggs" engines look eerily similar to all these -CHINESE HONDA CLONES- you can find at Harbor Freight, etc. I have no idea if they are connected, but judging by the similar looks it's easy to assume they are. :mad:

Just though I would ask to see what you know about these newer 420cc Briggs.

The -ARIENS 2100 POLAR FORCE- is the same as the -PROFESSIONAL SERIES SNOW 2100-
 
#34 · (Edited)
After looking around though it seems these 420cc "Briggs" engines look eerily similar to all these -CHINESE HONDA CLONES- you can find at Harbor Freight, etc. I have no idea if they are connected, but judging by the similar looks it's easy to assume they are. :mad:

Its almost impossible to know what is *really* going in China..but we can make some guesses by the way engines end up looking..

I agree, that Harbor Freight engine looks just like a briggs!
I bet this is what has happened..Its probably not a "Honda clone"..its probably a "Briggs clone"! and very possibly an illegal Briggs clone at that..
(I dont know how Harbor Freight can legally sell those engines..They are so obviously ripped off from Honda and Briggs..)

So my guess its a Chinese copy of a Briggs design..
there are probably hundreds of factories in China making these engines..and only a small percentage of them are "legal", according to our western definition of legal..China doesn't care too much about copyright and intellectual property, and there is so much money in illegal counterfeiting/cloning that the Chinese government doesn't do anything about it..

If you really want to be scared and disgusted, check this out:

Attack of the Clones: Chinese copies of the Honda CR-V

Chinese Clones - The Story of Soulless and Affordable Cars - autoevolution

Its a sad state of affairs out there..
People need to think twice the next time they are tempted to walk into a Walmart,
or buy that Harbor Freight engine..because when they do, they are encouraging all this,
and directly contributing to intellectual property theft, and putting Americans out of jobs..
and the worst part is, most Americans don't even have a clue that they are doing it.
all they are thinking is "yay! cheap stuff!"..but those low prices come with a big cost..

Scot
 
#35 ·
Update!
everything above about *two-stage* snowblowers is still correct,
but I had speculated that all single-stage snowblower engines would probably be made in China as well..this is not the case! :) It turns out there are in fact two remaining single-stage snowblowers that are totally made in the USA! including the engine..they are made by Honda in the USA..thanks to Robet for the info:

Honda single-stage throwers [HS520A (pull-start), HS520AS (120V AC electric start)] will continue to be made at the Honda plant in Swepsonville, NC. This includes the casting and assembly of the engine, all they way to final assembly of the completed product. This plant has made Honda mowers and loose engines too, since 1982.

Image
From this thread: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/general-snowblower-discussion/1439-chinese-engines.html

Scot
 
#36 ·
I know this topic is old but being that it is the 2013/14 snow season and according to this form, you can not get any USA made engines, blower. How about this new old stock from grainger. I think it is from the 2012/13 year maybe even 2011? Is this the last made USA blowers and is it worth it. Seems overpriced (original price, not clearance)
SNAPPER Snow Blower, 2 Stage, 29 In. - Snow Blowers - 11L635|1696003 - Grainger Industrial Supply????? If it is in fact a USA ENGINE (305), and a good blower, I would buy it, though it is over my budget. They would ship it to a local store for free.