Snowblower Forum banner

Re-Powering Troy-Bilt 2410 w/ B & S 305cc

24K views 121 replies 16 participants last post by  bosco659 
#1 Ā· (Edited)
This might be more appropriately called overpowering a Troy-Bilt 2410. :laugh:

Anyway, as per my Briggs & Stratton 305cc purchasing thread, I have a fairly large engine to use for a re-power of my 2014 Troy-Bilt 2410 w/ 179cc engine. The machine works well, having given it an impeller modification last year (rubber paddles). I figure with a 14.50 Gross Torque ( 9 HP ish) engine, it will be awesome.

I also plan on adding some LED lights to the TB 2410, as the B & S 305cc has a 60 Watt AC charging system. I'll need to convert the AC to DC, but I figure that a full wave bridge rectifier along with a decent sized capacitor and a 12 volt regulator will do the trick.

Anyway, I got the engine mounted, but ran into a bit of a snag . . . the shaft on the original TB 179cc engine is 7/8" and the Briggs has a 3/4". So, I'll either have to do a sleeve or some new pulleys.

Thoughts on which way to go ?

Here are some pictures of the day . . .

The original engine
Automotive tire Tire Vehicle Auto part Bumper


It is bolted from the underside of the chassis.
Disc brake Vehicle brake Auto part Cutting tool Brake


I removed the original engine. Here are the original and new engine side by side.
Motor vehicle Vehicle Car Auto part Technology


I made a pencil rubbing of the base of the new engine on a piece of paper.
Tire Automotive tire Wheel Auto part Automotive exterior


The holes happen to match a set of existing holes in the chassis. So that is a good thing. Perhaps this chassis is used on some larger machines.
Tire Automotive tire Motor vehicle Wheel Auto part


Here are the holes that match the Briggs 305cc. The original engine used a set of holes inside of the ones that fit the Briggs.
Vehicle Automotive tire Tire Motor vehicle All-terrain vehicle



continued on the next post . . . .
 
See less See more
6
#2 Ā· (Edited)
. . . continued from previous post

The holes in the base of the Briggs 305 appeared to be sized for a 5/16" bolt. I had 3/8" bolts, and the original engine used 3/8" bolts. So, I took a 3/8" tap and added threads to the base of the Briggs engine so that I could use the 3/8" bolts.
Pipe Auto part Metal Brass instrument


Here are the bolts threaded into the engine base from the underside of the chassis and a lock nut fastened on top.
Auto part Engine Machine Machine tool Vehicle
Auto part Fuel line Vehicle Car Engine


Here is the engine all mounted on the chassis of the 2410.
Vehicle Automotive tire Outdoor power equipment Tire Tool


It was a little late, so I did not run the engine yet, but it is all ready to go now that it is securely mounted. I just need to figure something out with the shaft sizing issue. My inclination is to get a new set of pulleys that fit a 3/4" shaft, but I am not sure if that would be the best way to go, versus getting a sleeve for the shaft.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aldfam4
#3 Ā·
A shim would not be too bad, You could actually make one as long as you cut strait and keep it close to the key way only being 1/16 thick as long as the key fits both shaft and pulley, I like what your doing and will be watching, You could recoup a large chunk of the engine price by selling the old one but wait a little time before you sell in case of issues.
 
#4 Ā·
I like it a lot.

My stock 2410 just keeps chugging away and getting the job done, no complaints. I'm a firm believer that bigger is better.
On those lights you might want to look around a bit before you commit to the bridge. It seems there are more and more LEDs available that have the converter inside and they list they run on AC or DC.
 
#6 Ā· (Edited)
Quick update . . .

since the old engine is sort of an odd-ball shaft diameter or 7/8", I might be better off to keep the pulleys with that engine and buy a set of 3/4" bore pulleys for the re-power. Besides the Troy-Bilt pulleys are a bit funky in their design, not typical of off-the shelf pulleys.

There are 2 pulleys needed

(1) Wheel drive - 2" outside diameter that takes a 3/8" wide v-belt

(2) Auger Drive - 2-3/4" (2.75") outside diameter that takes a 1/2" wide v-belt.

the keyway on the shaft of the B & S is about 0.180" wide, not sure of the depth.

Looking at pulleys, etc online, I am not sure what the term "pitch diameter" is referring to.

any help on the pulleys ? (thanks in advance)
 
#7 Ā· (Edited)
If the factory pulleys have a recessed notch for a keyway, then a simple 3/4 to 7/8 sleeve will work.

If the factory pulleys have a protruding notch that slips into the key slot on the crank shaft, then you'll need new pulleys.

If you end up needing new pulleys upsizing the auger drive pulley a little will produce a faster Impeller speed and more throwing distance and likely more snow volume capacity.
 
#8 Ā·
(1) If the factory pulleys have a recessed notch for a keyway, then a simple 3/4 to 7/8 sleeve will work.

(2) If the factory pulleys have a protruding notch that slips into the key slot on the crank shaft, then you'll need new pulleys.

If you end up needing new pulleys upsizing the auger drive pulley a little will produce a faster Impeller speed and more throwing distance and likely more snow volume capacity.
Yes, the second one . . Protruding notch. They are also made of 2 halves that go together and form the 'V' notch for the belt. Looks like a very specific design to Troy-Bilt rather than a common set of pulleys.

So, I think I am on the new pulley route. I may not be able to get to a Tractor Supply store in the next couple of weeks, so ordering something online would be preferable. I just want to make sure I get the right thing and don't have to play 'hit or miss'.

I was figuring on going with as much as a 3" diameter pulley for the auger drive, which would give about a 9% increase in auger-impeller speed versus the wheel drive speed. Thinking if I went too much more the larger pulley may not fit inside the belt cover.
 
#9 Ā·
Update:

I ran the new engine for about 1/2 an hour tonight. It started right up and seems to run fine. I can tell that it is a lot of engine for the machine. I ran it at a variety of speeds during the 30 minutes . . . only put it to/near full throttle briefly.

Just got to get the pulleys sorted out. I also think I will 'tweak' the impeller mod to further close up the gap, as I left a bit of a gap when I installed the paddles. I also will have an opportunity to grease up the drive mechanism before putting the lower cover back on, etc.
 
#10 Ā·
Update:


I also think I will 'tweak' the impeller mod to further close up the gap, as I left a bit of a gap when I installed the paddles. I also will have an opportunity to grease up the drive mechanism before putting the lower cover back on, etc.
When you change the paddles, make sure to notch them a bit where they pass by the bolt heads that hold the discharge chute on. They hang out some inside the impeller chamber.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tpenfield
#11 Ā· (Edited)
FWIW - Here are a couple of pix of the OEM pulley assembly that came with the Troy-Bilt

they look to be die cast pieces and fit together to form both drive and auger pulleys along with the appropriate spacer.
Brass Metal Auto part Bearing Hardware accessory


The pieces look like this when put together . . .
Brass Metal Lock Finger Hand


So, this certainly won't work for the 305cc engine, and I'm not sure it would work for the old engine as a re-power, unless the needed pulley spacing was a good match.

After having taken a bunch of measurements of the B & S installation on the TB2410 and checked out a few pulley sources, I think I have figured out a set of pulleys that will do the trick.

One of the challenges is that the shaft of the 305cc, not only being less diameter is also about 3/4" shorter than it needs to be. So the auger pulley would need to extend out beyond the crankshaft by about that much. In order to get a good grip on the shaft, I plan to go with a double groove pulley for the auger, even though I only need one groove.

The drive pulley is pretty straight forward as that is located closest to the engine.

Here is my design handy work for the pulleys
Text Black Font Design Line


I plan on adding a 3/4" spacer at the end of the shaft and held in with a bolt to provide some additional support of the auger pulley. The pulley will have about 1.2" on the shaft and the rest extending beyond the shaft.

Hopefully, this will work out. . .

So, I'll need to order the 2 pulleys, the spacer and a 2.25" key for the slot (which measures to be 0.180"wide x 0.95"deep).

The drive pulley will be 2.05 dia. and the auger pulley will be 3.15 dia. vs. 2.0 and 2.75 original. So, the auger/impeller speed will be about 12% more than the original gearing.
 
#13 Ā·
Looks like I can get the pulleys and the shaft key at Zoro.com and the spacer and fastener at one of my all time favorite sources . . . boltdepot.com

I was thinking that I should check the output of the alternator with a second running of the engine and see what I am getting for voltage. The alternator is rated at 60 watts, but that can come in a variety of ways. My preference would be 5 amps at 12 volts to make the 60 watts.
 
#14 Ā· (Edited)
I ran the engine again last night and hooked up a voltage meter to the AC charging system. I was not sure how good my volt meter was, but it was reading about 6 volts at idle and around 11 volts at higher throttle.

Tire Automotive tire Vehicle Wheel Auto part


I have not been able to find specs for what it should be. Maybe once I have an AC/DC converter hooked up, I can get a better idea of how well it works, etc.

I also ordered the pulleys and related hardware, so hopefully I will be putting this all together next week. Between now and then I can do a bit of re-work on the impeller mod to tighten that up a bit.
 
#15 Ā· (Edited)
I bought a new multi-meter and some electronic components to make a basic AC/DC converter.

Here is my quick and dirty converter . . . full wave bridge and a 1000 uf capacitor.
Circuit component Passive circuit component Transistor Capacitor Electronics


I also put a 100 ohm resistor across it, which you can see in the picture, to put a bit of a load on it.

The engine at idle gives about 7 volts
Automotive tire Tire Vehicle Auto part Technology


At a mid range engine speed, it reaches about 11 volts
Tire Automotive tire Technology Electronic device Measuring instrument


At full throttle it gets to 14.5 volts, with the 100 ohm load
Technology Electronic device Tire Cyclocomputer Vehicle


with no load on the system, it makes about 18 volts . . . so I would say that is what the AC voltage is. . .
Tire Automotive tire Auto part Rim Wheel


Anyway, I'll see if I can add a bit of regulation, but also thinking it may not even be necessary.
 
#18 Ā·
UPDATE:

I got the hardware that I ordered . . . still waiting on the pulleys.

Here are the parts that I plan on using as a shaft extension . . .
Metalworking hand tool Metal Knife Tool


Here they are assembled onto the shaft. The keyway will only be the length of the shaft.
Tire Automotive tire Auto part Wheel Disc brake


I also did some work on the impeller, which I will elaborate upon in a the next post.
 
#19 Ā· (Edited)
Impeller Mod 'Adjustment' . . .

Combined with the re-power, I planned on adjusting the rubber paddles on the impeller.

Here is a look at the paddles as I had installed them last year.
Red Vehicle Automotive exterior Fender Bumper


There is about a 1/8" clearance and looking at them, I thought that I could have made them a bit bigger and tighter to the impeller housing. So, I decided to make a new set of paddles. I still have plenty of reinforced material.

The bare (OEM) blade has about a 5/8" gap to the housing, and as such does not throw heavy/wet snow very well at all.
Red Bumper Automotive exterior Auto part Fender


I made a paper template of a new blade and shaped it to accommodate the carriage bolts that hold the exit chute to the housing.
Red Automotive exterior Bumper Hood Auto part


Here are the new paddles made from the paper template.


I used a c-clamp to hold the new paddles tight to the housing.
Auto part


From the underside, I then marked the location of the bolt holes for each paddle individually, as the bolt holes in each impeller blade vary slightly.
Vehicle Tool Impact driver


Here are the holes drilled in one of the paddles.
Automotive exterior Bumper Auto part


All bolted up . . .
Automotive exterior Wire Bumper Auto part


The impeller is a bit difficult to turn with these new paddles in place, but not overly so, just enough to allow some 'break-in' once I get the belts all connected.
 
#21 Ā· (Edited)
Quick Update . . .

I should be getting the pulleys tomorrow, so I will be able to try to put everything together. I may need to get a new set of belts as the crankshaft is about 1/4" higher than the original engine. . . we shall see.

I have finalized the electrical system design and will just need to buy the components. (picture link below)

Black Darkness White Sky Light


I plan on having one main work light and two amber side lights mounted on the control panel, along with an on/off switch. The AC/DC converter will have a 3 amp circuit breaker and a 10K ohm 'bleed-off' resistor.

The individual lights will all have male/female connectors in case any servicing is needed.

The AC/DC converter components will go into an aluminum box and the rectifier will mount to the box for heat dissipation . . . which should be pretty good in winter conditions.
 
#22 Ā· (Edited)
The Pulleys . . .

The package arrived yesterday with the 2 pulleys and shaft key.

Auto part Screw Rim


The mating of the 2 pulleys together gives about the right amount of spacing as compared to the OEM engine setup

Auto part Vehicle brake Brake Wheel Tire


Here are the pulleys mounted up on the new engine

Tire Automotive tire Auto part Vehicle Wheel


However, when I did a test fitting on the new engine, it appeared to be off a bit . . .

The picture link below shows some detail

Auto part Engine Automotive engine part Vehicle brake Brake


It looks like everything needs to go inward towards the engine about 0.25" . . . maybe a bit more.

It also looks like I can trim some material off the butt end of the small pulley (drive pulley) to slide the whole thing in further towards the engine. (yellow arrow in pic)

It seems like the small pulley is not as narrow as I was hoping it would be. Time to break out the hack saw. . . :eek:hmy:

On the positive side, it looks like the original belts may be OK. I forgot to take some pictures of how the idler wheel for the drive belt attaches to the engine face plate. So, I'll have to figure that out . . .
 
#23 Ā· (Edited)
Update . . .

I lopped about 1/4" off of the drive pulley and put the pulleys back together on the shaft. That seemed to do the trick as they now line up pretty well with the belts, etc.

Auto part Vehicle Engine Car Fuel line


I figured out how the drive belt idle/tensioner goes back on and also had to reshape the retainer wire that surrounds the auger belt and pulley.

Auto part Automotive tire Tire Engine Vehicle


I adjusted the auger handle grip tension a bit, because the auger belt is slightly tighter than with the OEM pulley, but not overly so. The next problem is that the belt/pulley cover does not fit over the larger pulley. So, I may have to make something . . .


It might actually snow tomorrow, so maybe the machine will get a trial run.
 
#24 Ā·
Just don't point that chute towed my house, It might actually make it here LOL that thing should be a beast, I get to try out a few tomorrow and next week. Plus one I'm picking up saturday that supposed to run.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tpenfield
#25 Ā· (Edited)
Just don't point that chute toward my house, It might actually make it here LOL that thing should be a beast, I get to try out a few tomorrow and next week. Plus one I'm picking up Saturday that supposed to run.
Yes, I'd say anyone in the MA/NH/RI area is at risk :icon_smile_tongue: .

I've been thinking about picking up another Toro 521 for the now surplussed Troy-Bilt engine. At only 179cc, it would still be a decent engine on a smaller machine. . . rating about an 0.26 "Power Factor" as per the current thread on horsepower.

Then I could probably sell the 521 in the Fall for about the cost of the new Briggs
 
#27 Ā·
It would be good to get to use it under some significant snow conditions . . . I guess :eek:hmy:

I think I have figured out a solution to the belt cover . . . I'll use the existing one, plus a few dimensional modifications, to make a new one out of fiberglass. I got some FG cloth on hand and just need to grab some resin.
 
#28 Ā·
I ran the machine tonight, just to check everything and to break-in the impeller paddles a bit.

Should be good to go if we get a bunch of snow on Tuesday . . .
 
#29 Ā·
We want video LOL
 
#30 Ā·
If we get the snow as predicted on Tuesday, I'll be sure to post a video :icon_smile_big:
 
#31 Ā·
Belt Cover Modification . . .

As a temporary measure, I cut out a section of the belt cover where the larger auger pulley is located. this allows the belt cover to go back on the machine, covering most of the mechanism.

Auto part Motor vehicle Automotive tire Engine Tire


I can then make a larger section out of fiberglass to cover the auger pulley and mend the new piece on the cover.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top