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17hp?!?!!!

10K views 33 replies 13 participants last post by  ChrisJ 
#1 ·
#3 · (Edited)
Seller thinking, while composing his craigslist ad:

"hmm..I wonder how many horsepower this is? the engine says 250cc, but thats not the horsepower..what other numbers can I find? the owners manual says the different models available are:

921013
921017
921018
921022
921023
921027
921031

Those last digits must obviously mean the different horsepower ratings for the different models..mine is model 921017, therefore its 17hp..mystery solved..man i'm smart!"
 
#4 ·
Adjust the governor, run at 4500 rpm..... Problem solved !

Seriously, though, my experience has been that commercially available snowblowers are always underpowered for handling heavy wet snow. Years ago, I had a Sears with a 7 hp engine that died (broke a connecting rod), that I repowered up to 10 hp. Much better! My current 11.5 hp Ariens would work better with 13 - 15. I think the snowblower engineers must live in areas with powdery snow.
 
#20 ·
Yes, I agree it would be better to have larger engines. But again, there are buts!

Everything (at least in a well engineered product) is sized to perform in a specific environment. I refer to shaft sizes, thrust bearings, belts, wheels, gears, gear ratio and the list goes on. For example, if one were to place modern 300HP engine into an old car such as a pre 1940 Ford and drive it to the limits of the engine, you would quickly find the transmission or the rear differential failing.

So although I agree that a larger engine will perform do a better job on a snowblower, that machine should be designed to accommodate the additional HP. And one other note worth considering. Gasoline engine HP is usually highest at high RPMs. Snowblowers I am aware of have governers to prevent operating at high RPM. Many instruction manuals strongly advise not to adjust the governers to high RPM or risk engine failures.
 
#5 ·
Posting has been updated to 11HP. lol geeeessshh
 
#13 ·
I have pondered this for awhile now. CC'S really don't mean squat. you would have to crack open the engine. to see what is stamped on the Gov. I wonder if it is still written in HP'S. I have never opened up a newer model engine. to see if the truth is still in there.:eek:k::eek:k::eek:k::eek:k::eek:k:
 
#16 ·
I have pondered this for awhile now. CC'S really don't mean squat. you would have to crack open the engine. to see what is stamped on the Gov. I wonder if it is still written in HP'S. I have never opened up a newer model engine. to see if the truth is still in there.
Not really sure what you mean.

cc's aren't *everything*, no. You could have a large-displacement engine, that produces very little power, if designed poorly, or really worn out (valves or piston rings leaking).

But the old expression "there's no replacement for displacement" has quite a bit of truth to it. These engines basically all run at the same speed, 3600 RPM, or close to it. And the displacement pretty much determines how much torque the engine can produce.

Horsepower is torque * RPM. So if the cc's effectively determine your torque, and the RPM is essentially fixed (there are no blowers turning at 6000 RPM), then the cc's basically determine your horsepower.

OHV engines produce more torque (and therefore more power) for the same cc's when compared with older flathead engines, so there is some difference there. This is because in an OHV, the valves are located above the piston, whereas in a flathead, they were off to the side. This allows the OHV to reduce the "unproductive" air volume in the chamber, which can result in a little higher compression ratio, and a little more power. But pretty much all blower engines are OHV now, so this difference is largely eliminated.

I would argue that cc's are a pretty good indicator of the power-producing potential of an engine. Certainly one of the better indicators we have at the moment. And I'm not sure what you mean by looking at the Gov (governor?) to look for power info. I doubt there are secrets written on anything in the engine, and people can mark stuff with whatever info they want anyhow :)
 
#14 ·
I know a guy with an Ariens pro 28, 420cc. Always saying how it has 21HP. I gave up explaining to him how the motors are rated now after 6 times.
 
#17 ·
The only large HP >12Hp single cylinders I have seen are the Wisconsin engines - I think they had 14 and 16 ones. You see them on skid loaders and things like that. It would take a pretty stout frame to hold up to one! You better pray it runs - cuz I doubt you could push it around easily!
 
#29 ·
I raced cars long enough to know that there is no substitute for displacement so your cc has a big impact on HP. If Honda claims 13HP on a 389 cc then the formula would be accurate with in reason. If I take the 19 ft/lbs for the 389 cc at 3600 rpm it comes out bang on. 99% of snow blower are limited at 3600 rpm. Since most suppliers give you the torque and rpm is pretty much a constant then it would stand to reason that it would be accurate. We can get into the lost of power because of muffler etc. We could also get into the power at the blower fan, auger and more but that not something I believe small engine manufacturer does. It certainly more accurate then when they used the Hp instead of the cubic centimetres.
 
#30 ·
I raced cars long enough to know that there is no substitute for displacement so your cc has a big impact on HP. If Honda claims 13HP on a 389 cc then the formula would be accurate with in reason. If I take the 19 ft/lbs for the 389 cc at 3600 rpm it comes out bang on. 99% of snow blower are limited at 3600 rpm. Since most suppliers give you the torque and rpm is pretty much a constant then it would stand to reason that it would be accurate. We can get into the lost of power because of muffler etc. We could also get into the power at the blower fan, auger and more but that not something I believe small engine manufacturer does. It certainly more accurate then when they used the Hp instead of the cubic centimetres.

Yeah.
It's not like forced induction can ever provide power or anything and we all know more valves doesn't do anything along with overhead valves, variable cam timing, better flow etc.

There are plenty of replacements for displacement especially when that displacement is on a terrible design. Harry Miller showed us just that for many many years. A 1920's Miller design is more advanced than many 1990s car engines. Take a look at a tiny 1970s 2.6 liter Offenhauser producing 1000HP and tell me how great a 7 liter V8 producing 400HP is.

Regarding power loss due to mufflers and air cleaners this is exactly what small engine manufactures do and it's why they specifically advertise gross horsepower.

Honda is the only one I know of that specifically states net horsepower.
 
#33 ·
I think the point is getting missed when I said there no replacement for displacement. Sure you can get same 700Hp out of a civic as the 700Hp out of a 502 ci. I'm not arguing about that. One hits it's peak torque at 7000 rpm the other at 3500 rpm. What I was saying is that for a fix rpm of 3600 both carburetor engine OHV. You need displacement to get more torque that will also increase HP. Just like if I run my 502 in town in 3 gear at 2500 rpm and I floor it without down shifting I'll light up the tires on it. If you do that at same rpm with the civic nothing really happens till rpm gets way up there. So since it's a basic engine, on a snow blower and that pretty much all have the same type of engine OHV at fix rpm I'll ask this. How are you going to make significant increase in Hp and torque?
 
#34 ·
I think the point is getting missed when I said there no replacement for displacement. Sure you can get same 700Hp out of a civic as the 700Hp out of a 502 ci. I'm not arguing about that. One hits it's peak torque at 7000 rpm the other at 3500 rpm. What I was saying is that for a fix rpm of 3600 both carburetor engine OHV. You need displacement to get more torque that will also increase HP. Just like if I run my 502 in town in 3 gear at 2500 rpm and I floor it without down shifting I'll light up the tires on it. If you do that at same rpm with the civic nothing really happens till rpm gets way up there. So since it's a basic engine, on a snow blower and that pretty much all have the same type of engine OHV at fix rpm I'll ask this. How are you going to make significant increase in Hp and torque?


Boost :tongue4:

I agree with what you said though, if both engines are the same general design running at the same speed they are likely very close in power.

BTW, overall, I'm a GM guy.
A civic just doesn't fit me.
 
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