Chute design - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 6 Old 03-04-2018, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 150
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 12
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 20
Chute design

I am always surprized to see a Yamaha or a Honda in action. Snow coming from their chute has a tight stream of snow better than anything else I saw. Ariens is not bad with their modern models but don't do a tight stream of snow like the two mentionned machines. Can someone explain me why ?
legarem is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 Old 03-04-2018, 12:33 PM
Senior Member
 
leonz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New York State
Posts: 1,149
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 73
Thanks (Received): 89
Likes (Given): 76
Likes (Received): 158
The discharge side of the yamaha impeller housing on the 1028 and 1332 have two major benefits
The 824 and 1332 impeller and cross auger are belt driven, The 1028 uses an electromagnetic clutch to power the
impeller and cross auger and a belt drive for the hydrostatic transmission if my memory is correct.

1. the impeller housings of the 1028 and 1332 are lined with a slick sheet material that covers the housing perimeter to the outlet.
2. the discharge side of the impeller housing of the 1028 has a piece of cast slick sheet material that is fitted to the convex discharge portion of the impeller housing and the flat side of the impeller housing.
3. this allows the discharged snow and ice to continue to accelerate exiting the impeller housing and the chute is lined with the same slick sheet material which continues to the top of the chute and exits through the spout that is not lined with slick sheet material. I am not sure if the 1332 has the same type of cast slick material fitted like the 1028 model in the impellers discharge throat.

The Yamaha units were designed with track drive at first(Ricky model) then they went to a wheel drive for the canadian export models and they returned to a track drive system(glad they got away from wheel drives) and tested to be used in northern Nippon/Japan and Hokkaido Island with thier wet heavy snow fall and using the slick liner material aids in quick discharge speeds. The 824 1028 and 1332 have a heavy steel frame with enough ballast weight to provide plenty of adhesion/traction to the ground or snow pack to remove the snow.
The use of the larger serrated auger on the yamaha units allows the snow and ice to be chopped up to its smallest portion before it enters the impeller housing to be cast away.

The 824 and 1028 do not have clutch/steering brakes to stop one track to let the other track spin the snow caster around.
The 1332 has clutch brakes to aid in turning. The 1028 units exported to the European market have button activated clutch brakes so they are thinking ahead and planning to add clutch brakes to the other 1028 models eventually.

I have seen tiny japanese women run the 1028 and spin them around. Its all about technique as you use the machines drive to spin it by applying more pressure (push/pull to the opposing side) to make it go where you want.

I know much less about the Ariens units
The Ariens chute and impeller housing are unlined with slick sheet material of any kind and with the Ariens units are belt driven.

As with any snow caster the design is a combination of
1. available horse power
2. traction/adhesion/ballast weight
3. impeller speed created by the drive system with a v belt drive or electromagenetic clutch
4. The shaft speed for the worm gear to spur gear drive for the cross augers speed of rotation
5.the transmission is also belt driven and V belts are used to transmit the power to the transmission
and at the same time a separate V belt is delivering power to the cross auger and impeller through the worm to spur gear final drive that is also spinning the impeller at the same speed.

A single stage unit is much less complicated to make and maintain but costs more to make as the snow blower rotor is made using a steel tube with auger flights welded to the steel tube. the solid flights push the snow to the center of the housing and the high speed of rotation discharges the snow through the chute and spout at a high rate of speed.

The single units also require a heavier cross auger housing to support the weight of the solid snow blower rotor.
The walk behind single stage units are belt driven. In the case of the older snow throwers mounted on lawn tractors they used a belt to chain drive systeme that is much simpler to own and operate.

The old toros(826) had a solid auger housing with a very large solid rotor tube with auger flights welded to the tube which metered the snow in a set volume to the impeller to be cast away.

I probably forgot some things and for that I apologize in advance.

Last edited by leonz; 03-05-2018 at 11:46 AM. Reason: stuff/spelling and punctuation corrections
leonz is offline  
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 2 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Likes Grunt, FullThrottle liked this post
post #3 of 6 Old 03-04-2018, 01:09 PM
Senior Member
 
drmerdp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 1,288
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 6
Thanks (Received): 143
Likes (Given): 24
Likes (Received): 294
Anyone feel like there head starts to spin when leonz goes into explaination mode. lol

Honda and yamaha both seem to use the same principles for throwing performance. Very fast impeller speeds, an impeller outlet that keeps the snow consolidated, and finally a chute design that further keeps the snow controlled and consolidated.

Yamaha may have the impeller and chute liners but from what i've seen the snow has the same tightly packed rectangular stream with minimal dispersal that honda's have.

All snowblower manufactures are going for the same thing though. All of the competition has improved in this regard over the years. I cant say exactly what sets honda and yamaha apart from the rest.

Honda HSS1328AATD | Honda HS720 | Toro Powerlite | Simplicity 860se


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
drmerdp is offline  
post #4 of 6 Old 03-04-2018, 01:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 807
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 60
Thanks (Received): 112
Likes (Given): 79
Likes (Received): 124
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by legarem View Post
I am always surprized to see a Yamaha or a Honda in action. Snow coming from their chute has a tight stream of snow better than anything else I saw. Ariens is not bad with their modern models but don't do a tight stream of snow like the two mentionned machines. Can someone explain me why ?
Perhaps the Yamaha and Honda use smaller chutes than the Ariens to make tighter snow streams, but I don't know, is that a significant factor in snow clearing?

The distance that all 3 manufacturers machines can throw is in the range of 50 to 60 ft where the more powerful engined machines throw farther, so that is not a differentiator at all. While ease of use etc are important, the major factor in snow-clearing machines is their output; which all 3 manufacturers measure as "tons per hour". Here Ariens is the best with a range of 73 to 91 tons per hour for their higher end Platinum and Pro models from 24" to 32". Honda ranges from 46 to 83 tons per hour for their 24" to 32" models. Yamaha ranges from 35 to 76 tons per hour from their 24" to 32" models.

So if you want to clear the snow quickly choose an Ariens model; for every bucket width they throw more snow.

2015 Ariens Platinum 30 SHO - model 921040
Town is online now  
post #5 of 6 Old 03-05-2018, 12:16 PM
Senior Member
 
leonz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New York State
Posts: 1,149
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 73
Thanks (Received): 89
Likes (Given): 76
Likes (Received): 158
The issues are always horsepower, the torque available to create the power needed by the V belt drive system for;
1. transmission/drive system
2. the worm to spur gear drive system which provides the rotation speed for (a) the impeller and (b) the cross auger


A multispeed transmission versus a Continuously Variable Hydrostatic Transmission requires a lot more work to implement in a walk behind snow caster and it creates plugging headaches when the operator runs the machine too fast.

Belt slippage also plays a role with a snubber compression v belt drive system versus a cog timing belt if a cog gears are used.

The tonnage per hour figures are misleading in some ways as snow pack varies in density and weight per cubic foot over time periods from freeze thaw cycles.
Measurements for both packed and loose snow fall have an agreed upon weight per cubic foot per architectural, civil and mechanical engineering design standards so that is what they base thier discharge tonnage figures on. The information source is from "Pocket Reference".


If a walk behind caster had double the horsepower per inch of cut the impellers would not plug but I do not see the builders of these things doing that or following Geno's Frankenstein blower example.

If Zaugg made a smaller track drive single or two stage unit for consumers they would give the entire market the willies.

It all comes down to marketing and what the consumer wants to or is willing to spend.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bulldogg.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	25.5 KB
ID:	136097  
leonz is offline  
post #6 of 6 Old 03-05-2018, 12:28 PM
Senior Member
 
tdipaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 838
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 74
Thanks (Received): 74
Likes (Given): 250
Likes (Received): 297
The same question was asked here: https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum...ngine-why.html


.

1989 John Deere 1032
1979 Toro 5/24 38040 (now a 6.5/24)
2015 Snapper Pro SW30 52" Mower
tdipaul is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome