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Ariens efi problems

88K views 148 replies 42 participants last post by  bosqueb2 
#1 ·
I've got the new efi and it hasn't run right yet, my dealer said to run premium gas with no alcohol, that's what I've been doing, changed the spark plug, it was badly fouled after 1/2 hour of backfiring and stalling, did I buy a mistake? The dealer hasn't worked on one yet. Im pretty handy, any suggestions? The blink indicator is ridiculous, impossible to count.
Thanks
 
#2 ·
all of today's machines are made to run on 10%ethanol gas. high test will help but is not really necessary . use a good NAME brand gas, shell,exxon/mobil,sunoco . whatever is near you, try to stay away from the off brand /no names. where i have found by testing to exceed the 10% level and many times be closer to 20 plus,that will harm the fuel system and engine,
 
#6 · (Edited)
all of today's machines are made to run on 10%ethanol gas.
For carbureted small equipment engines (push lawnmowers, riding lawnmowers, snowblowers, generators, etc.) That isnt necessarily true, and might not be true at all. Most engines are still older designs, I have never heard that *any* carbureted small gas engines have been specifically designed to deal with 10% ethanol. Most, perhaps all, are not. Which is why non-ethanol gas is much better for these engines, and why ethanol is such a big deal/problem for these engines.

For EFI snowblower engines? I dont know..they might be designed with 10% ethanol in mind. I don't recall this specific question ever coming up in this forum before, this might be the first time.

Scot
 
#3 ·
what is the point having fuel injection if you can't run regular fuel? it sounds like you need to get the dealer to check it out and if need be contact head office if the dealer won't look at it. if you have to run premium ethanol free fuel minus well just saved yourself a ton of money and just got the carbed version.
 
#5 ·
Finn you were having trouble 10 months ago its under warranty why did you wait this long to have it fixed by the dealer
I would have had a backup machine dropped off free of charge until they fixed and returned the blower

Its there issues not having worked on one prolly bs anyway any top wrencher could get what he needs from ariens to fix it easy sheesh

Call ariens tell them this load of crap


So far its you that has dropped the ball
 
#9 · (Edited)

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#10 ·
Finnbear


I went back and looked at your post from February when the trouble started with your blower.You said you added Seafoam to the gas because you suspected water in your fuel.


This is just my opinion,but seeing as though Seafoam has a lot of isopropyl alcohol in it,it might not be such a good product to use in your blower because of the fuel injection system being sensitive to fuels with a higher methanol content than E10.I wonder if the system is sophisticated enough to compensate for the added alcohol.I also wonder if it's possible that Seafoam could have a negative effect on the sensors used by the EFI.
 
#11 · (Edited)
It's not really fuel injection as you know it in your car. It's really an "electronic carb" for lack of a better description.



It's mapped to a single set of circumstances, and that doesn't vary. Like when a car is running in open loop. There are no sensors on a snowblower EFI system. Sensors vary fuel delivery based on load, altitude, throttle position, engine temp, and air temp, I believe they only monitor air fuel ratio. (could be wrong, haven't seen one up close) These small, simple systems don't use these variables and only deliver fuel one way because environmental variations don't really change.
 
#13 ·
10 months ago, the dealer told me I was using the wrong gas, to use ethanol free premium only, and that would cure my problem, seemed to be ok for a while, but this season we are back to running awful again. I delivered it to a different dealer today, they too had never worked on one.
We will see...
 
#16 ·
10 months ago, the dealer told me I was using the wrong gas, to use ethanol free premium only, and that would cure my problem, seemed to be ok for a while, but this season we are back to running awful again.
...
Did you go through the post-season storage procedure as outlined in the owner's manual?This entails COMPLETELY draining the gas tank and then running the engine until it runs out of fuel.They also recommend using a "high quality fuel stabilizer" at all times.Myself,I would go with a non-alcohol type.
 
#14 ·
That Ariens service manual is a great resource. I finally got my answer on how the system is configured. It is a open loop fuel injection system, nothing carburetor about it. Air temp, engine temp, baro, engine speed, Throttle position, fuel pump, injector. Easy peasy. :)

The manual is very complete with diagnostic info and hi resolution images. Any decent technician should be able to diagnosis and repair the issue. I’d love to get my hands on one for fun.

Lots of small engine shops haven’t grown with the times...yet. Gotta start somewhere, hopefully they get it fixed for you quickly.
 
#15 ·
With your needs I would invest in a Mr. Funnel and a second gas can to filter the water out of the existing gas before you use it as any gasoline will be subject to being a moisture magnet.

You may have a cracked spark plug electrode and they will cause you fits.

I would gap the plug to 25 thousandths and then try it with clean gas run through a mister funnel.

I use Seafoam in my truck and its capable of using E85 and I have not have any issues running the truck with it.
 
#20 ·
That looks like a real deal EFI system according to the wiring diagrams I have seen, although there is no feedback without an O2 sensor. It's only a matter of time before an O2 sensor is added and programmed into these systems, much like other government interference on emissions. Look at Tier 4 diesels,,,,

Finnbear, can you post a video of the blinking lights on the ECM? I'd love to see/touch one of these systems, It'll be a money maker for the small engine guys that want to tackle it. I know some dealers are resisting the new technology. Where are you located??

GLuck, Jay
 
#25 ·
I've got my service manual, I just have a problem figuring out the codes, please watch the video I posted and let me know what the blink code is 😆
I just dropped the machine off at a different dealer.
This morning it ran fine until under load, then sputtered, backfired and stalled. Weird...
Hope this new dealer can figure it out.
Thanks to all of you,
FB.
 
#27 ·
Finnbear,

IDK if I'd call THAT a 'Good One'....According to Ariens, The green light blinks when the ECM sees the engine running Good. The Red LED should be blinking out a code. That ECM has BOTH lights Flashing at the same time, in no discernible pattern. Is that the video of Your machine?


I had several videos as that's the only way I've found to safely see the blinking light, seems to me they should make the light more accessible. Here is a good one.

In any event there is only so many things that can go wrong. Everything to test is within a 3 foot area. Start with basics and work towards the problem. I hope your new dealer is more aggressive in his testing.

GLuck, Jay
 
#29 ·
Wow,
I just did some looking around at the cost of parts for the EFI system.The throttle body alone costs more than I've ever paid for a snowblower-$350 and up.


The ECU is $150.


You can buy a replacement carburetor for a Tecumseh flathead for less than the cost of the plastic throttle knob-$25.
 
#30 ·
I figured that the EFI blowers would come down to this. Engine problems, dealers not knowing how to fix it, traditional troubleshooting procedures not effective, yada, yada, yada.

Welcome to the world of EFI. . . :sad2:


They work great until they don't.



I agree with the others, hold the dealer's feet to the fire . . . there is probably a sensor that is failing. Dealer says "wrong fuel" ??? :plain: geezz . . . That is on the second page of the book of a million excuses. These small engines can run on just about anything. I bet you could try a gallon of TruFuel, and it will still have problems. Hopefully, the dealer will step up and become EFI proficient.



I see this happen with boat engines all the time. Folks spend lots of time and $$$ chasing the problem, trying different fuel, spark plugs, ignition components, sensor roulette. Then they try the "blinking light" testers . . . usually coming to the conclusion that the engine is on the blink :grin:.
 
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#31 ·
Jay, yes, that's my machine, both lights blinking, that's why the smiley face asking about the codes. Im thinking about getting it running good and selling it. 2 seasons of trouble. Maybe someone else will have better luck. Only after a long letter to Ariens though.
 
#32 ·
I’ve read through the engine diagnostics section of the manual a few times.

The GREEN light blinking in no decernable pattern is described as normal. Kinda like an old computer that had a red or green light that would flicker wildly.

The RED light is for trouble codes. But... that red light is freaking Out. I’ve worked on plenty of cars that use an led flash pattern to display codes. Usually the flash speed is no more then 3-4 flashes per second, and requires patience to identify the code.

That red led is in hyper speed. I slowed down the playback speed in YouTube to 0.25x and I still can’t come up with an identifiable code. The service manual lists 5 codes... 16, 21, 22, 27,28.

In the automotive world, if you think it must be the ECU, you’re probably wrong. But in this case, It may be the ECU.

I also suspect the stator. It powers the light, hand warmers, charges the battery, and also acts as the engine speed sensor.
 
#34 ·
The dealership will probably just gut and replace the entire fuel injection system if they are as unknowledgeable about it as they appear.Then send Ariens a big fat inflated bill.






This reminds me of the recent thread where the Toro dealership,under warranty,replaced a gearbox,impeller bearing and auger shaft support bearings on a Toro that they originally told the OP didn't have a problem,"That small amount of play is normal".It was normal until Toro told them to check it out,and then it needed $700 worth of work.
 
#36 ·
I agree with Dr mer, First thing to check, (other than fluids), Would be battery supply voltage. I always test charging and starting systems Before digging in. I would check stator output with a scope.... Since the computer needs clean DC Voltage...ANY AC leakage will cause the computer to go on the fritz. That's where I'd start. I also read thru the Ariens manual. They suggest reading codes WITH A MIRROR !!!! Hahahahahaahahaahahaha..... great idea. Why not drop the ECM and look straight on?? Then perform testing at the computer. EZ stuff...can't wait to get one to play with.

GLuck, Jay
 
#38 · (Edited)
I would check stator output with a scope.... Since the computer needs clean DC Voltage...ANY AC leakage will cause the computer to go on the fritz. That's where I'd start.
Most people (and I suspect most small-engine repair shops) won't have an oscilloscope. Any thoughts on whether the system could maybe run temporarily off the small battery pack, and disconnect it from the alternator, to ensure it's getting clean DC?
 
#37 ·
For future reference on Ariens products and engines here is a link to their site to get manuals. Owner's, service, and engine:

https://support.ariens.com/manuals/

Here is the link for LCT engine manuals:

Service - Liquid Combustion Technology, LLC

Note that they want you to enter a LONG engine model number. Mine is (no kidding!) PW617750178EABGILOQUVXE1M

They do have an autofill on the web site so you can enter maybe half and then pick yours from a list, but gee, they couldn't come up with a better model sequence system?

BTW, warranty on the LCT engines is two years.

Hope this helps.
 
#40 ·
Thanks all for your help.fingers crossed the dealer can figure this out. Then I'm having a sale. I live in big snow country, and wonder what I should get? I've got a 25 or 30 year old Ariens in my garage that finally gave up. Once I get rid of this efi pos, what do you all recommend?
 
#41 ·
Finnbear you already have the good SnowBlower.....Just need to restore it!!!! You can't do better than that old American Iron. There are Mods you can do to make it a little more user friendly, smoother, quieter. But I understand that time is not on your side rite now. What model is the old one?? Engine size?? And what took it out of commission??

GLuck, Jay
 
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