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EFI Problems

19K views 80 replies 26 participants last post by  tabora 
#1 ·
Problems with EFI?
 

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#45 ·
rslifkin
it's not only snow blowers, please add in lawn tractors, and other machinery with Fi, all the engine makers are adding more engines with Fi to the list every year, kohler, lct, power more 'mtd motors" briggs, kawawaski, to name a few.

costs a shop out of pocket to go to or take online training schools, it takes a tech out of the shop while doing so,that adds to the backup in repairs, add to schools one needs to take in the cost of special tools to aid in the diag, it's not like cars just yet, where one can spend say 100 bucks on a obd tester, it's still brand specific , this for kohler,another for lct and so on , a kohler 2576150S Efi Diagnostic Tool costs the dealer or shop $475.00 just for one tool, a Kohler Part # 2576120S Rectifier Regulator Tester adds to costs $259.95
heck when i worked as a certified auto dealer master tech i had close to 100 grand in my boxes from over the many years, it's not cheap for a tech to be in the trade.
 
#52 ·
Most Ariens are assembled in the U.S. The LCT engines are made in China, the company has offices in the U.S.
But like everything else, they all keep going to China for the cheap slave labor to manufacture, but don't give the consumer the breaks on the price, that would take away from the big profits the CEO's make.
 
#57 · (Edited)
Yea and look what it costs to update that scanner tool all the time. You either have to buy a subscription for it or pay each time you update it, and they are not cheap to do, plus look at the price of the tool alone, then you have different cables that have to be purchased for it to communicate with the different machines/vehicles you are using it on.

People wonder why it costs so much money just to have a vehicle or machine diagnosed with those tools but somebody has to pay for those tools to do the job and those scanners only last for so long and eventually they have to be replaced with newer versions because of how much and fast everything is changing with technology today.

Give it time and the LCT on the Ariens is going to do the same thing and be the same way as to needing a computer hook-up to diagnose it, gone will be the "Flashing Light" on the EFI Module.

Those flashing lights and generic scanners tell very little compared to what the high end expensive scanners can do.
 
#60 ·
I talked with a family friend last night about his equipment. He has his own business running 9 Exmarks with Kohler EFI and a few John Deere ZTR's. He says the Kohler EFI software including diagnostics cable ran him $450. That and a PC is all his mechanic needs. He said they have a Bluetooth version out now for Android and Apple but for now he likes the PC version. He's not sure where thousands of dollars and seminars are needed, at least for his stuff. I'm on the fence about EFI for Ariens and I am keeping an open mind about it.
 
#62 ·
I'll agree that they haven't done anything fancy enough with it yet to make it a compelling advantage. The only big thing the EFI blowers have over the carbed ones at this point is the lower droop electronic governors. The rest of the advantages are fairly small. But if they develop the EFI systems a bit further along with corresponding engine improvements, they should be able to pull out some further fuel efficiency gains even if nothing else improves.
 
#63 ·
Zavie, it sounds like your friend has everything he needs for his work, it sounds like he has a lawn care business.
When you get into the dealerships and repair shops, they have to have that equipment for all the different manufacturers that they handle and that adds up in costs.
The Kohler equipment that he has, the price for software with a cable included, then when they start changing cables and when a cable is damaged that is has to be replaced add to the costs, plus then you have to get a computer to use the software in, and that can add another couple of hundred to over a thousand dollars just for the computer starts to get expensive.
Then figure you need all of that for each different manufacturer's product that you sell and service, you've got Briggs, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, just to name a few, there are many other different manufacturers that you need the software and hardware,cables and all to go with, then you have to pay for updating the software all the time, it gets very expensive.
The training and seminars are required for your certifications that the technicians have so they can maintain them and for being able to do warranty work to be an authorized dealership and repair facility and remain a certified technician, plus to stay current with new products and everything else.
The small engine/outdoor power equipment business is becoming an expensive business to be in now days, its making its way up there almost like a car dealership with all the tools, training, insurance, inventory and everything else that goes along with it.
You might have $100,000 in hand tools alone, then start adding in all of your computerized tools that are required on top of your hand tools like wrenches and many specialized tools for what you are working on, it gets very expensive, when you figure you have as much if not more just in your tool box than what a house with the land costs.
That does get some technicians upset when certain people refer to them as "High School Drop-Outs".
 
#64 ·
Having all that stuff does not make one a genius by any stretch of the imagination.



I base my assessment on what I see - most of the time, someone who is intellectually challenged bashing two rocks together . . . although, there are exceptions . . .


Heck, just look at the amount of misinformation on the Ariens EFI here, where folks tend to be better than average . . .
 
#65 ·
ST1100A

seems you and i plus a few other guys understand the costs of running a shop and difficulties of finding REAL techs. real world good reputation shops don't have low grade techs, those that do, don't have a backup's of weeks plus to get repairs made,

what we need to do is stop pushing collage at every kid, bring back trade schools people can afford, not the ones seen on tv that really are trade collages that cost as much as,


back to subject

people need to understand the issue is clean air laws, small engine us emission rules on ope are being seen more and more every year there will be days soon where the systems are sealed tamper proof .
 
#66 ·
people need to understand the issue is clean air laws, small engine us emission rules on ope are being seen more and more every year there will be days soon where the systems are sealed tamper proof .

Hopefully the learning curve will go somewhat like it did with cars. Where the early solutions seem not so great, but then as they figure out better ways to meet the new rules without driving the price too high, they end up figuring out other improvements along the way. Which is how we got to the point we're at now where cars are far more powerful than they used to be but also cleaner and engine-wise more efficient (overall efficiency suffers from size and weight gain though).
 
#67 ·
One has to ask;

"Would it not be "far simpler" for the layperson, the power equipment dealers and manufacturers to just use smaller catalytic converters?

I had a Foley Engine Service catalytic converter on my firewood processor because the GX340 exhaust fumes made me sick every time I used it even after I warmed the engine and log splitter up with my kerosene fired space heater.

As long as the catalytic converter is not plugged from a bad fuel system or leaking piston rings the exhaust will continue to be carbon dioxide and water vapor and non toxic.

The number of hours it would take for a catalytic converter to plug in seasonal service would be so high that the catalytic converter could simply be swapped to the next engine or snow blower with no issue.


My thoughts on a crappy, rainy, and foggy day on my mountain.
 
#69 ·
Myself, while more complexity may be inevitable, I have to hand it to Ariens for trying to keep the system as simple as possible at this point. Seems like they are trying to keep it in reach of most shops and end users, and not requiring any investment in special tools/computers/scanners/etc. at this point. I think that they understand that a huge convoluted mess of a product very well may cost them customers. So far this year, it seems like the only problems I have read here may well be due to failing to read the docs and assemble it correctly . . .

I just wish we could know how many have sold. In my area, seems like the general shops have the baseline EFI models, and the dealers don't carry any - in thier 'exclusive' lines, or any other . . . only reason I was given was $$$ . . . but wonder if they have just not bothered to train/qualify for it (nomidea what/if Ariens may require of a dealer . . .).
 
#70 ·
It is getting to the point now with all of the emission compliance that a cheap $200 lawn mower is going to cost in upwards of $1000 because of the things necessary to make it compliant with pollution laws.
They are already making small push mowers with EFI and look at the price on them.
Our government has to cut back a bit on their insane regulations. They want everything battery powered, but they forget that it takes a generating station to produce the electricity to charge the batteries, and to fast charge them, it takes a lot of electricity quickly, that puts a strain on the power companies and generating stations to produce the electricity. They have to burn fuel to produce it, so there is more pollution right there.
Then the batteries do not last forever and have to be replaced frequently, look at the cost of the battery, and they can only be recycled so many times, after that they have to be disposed.
Then look at how toxic the batteries are with the highly toxic substances they are made with. If it wasn't toxic, you could just throw them in the garbage and be done with them, get caught doing that now and you are in for a big fine or jail time.
The batteries are more harmful and dangerous to the environment than any fossil fuel is and ever was, but our government keeps forcing it on us.
You have some of the newer companies trying their hand at EFI, trying to keep it simple, and give them time and they will be just as complicated as the other higher tech ones to try to keep up with them or be forced to in order to meet regulations.
You have people trained to service these new complicated systems and when they get a "Simple System" they would rather just throw it away because its not worth fixing.
You get a guy who just came back from having his car repaired due to a EFI-Emission related problem and he is broke from the bill and needs to buy a new lawn mower, and now he cant afford a nice one, so he has to get the cheapest he can get, and that's going to cost him a thousand dollars because of the EPA requirements, or he wanted to get the newest latest set-up with EFI that was "Marketed" so heavily, and now he is afraid to buy it because he just got slammed with a large bill for his auto repair because his EPA required EFI/Computerized system failed somehow, and that just scared him away from the "New Technology" lawn mower he was going to purchase.
Where will it ever end? We wonder that every day.
 
#71 ·
"The coal powered electric lawn mower" no argument there . . .

Despite the EPA mandates, I still feel that EFI is a more reliable, more accurate system. May cost more to fix, but you should need to fix it a lot less, and hopefully mfg's can adjust warranties accordingly to alleviate the fears. I believe that the EPA also mandates a minimum warranty/service life on emission parts (EFI included), and if they get heavy handed on this stuff, with any luck, they will force the warranty issue as well.

Myself, I like what I am seeing in the simpler current Ariens system, and still trying to find a way in without basically eating an entire new blower . . .
 
#72 ·
yes it will be more reliable as time and hands on in the shops wise up owners and techs,till than it's pray,

ok right now if one looks at lawn mowers brand names don't matter google up fuel injected out door power equipment. on many ,esp, tractors and 0 turns , we see charcoal canisters, vent less gas caps, special fuel hose, epa rule wise https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...5af7c09e88&mc=true&node=pt40.36.1054&rgn=div5
emission warranty wise it varies by cc, and if a 2 or 4 stroke
 
#74 ·
Within 10 years I believe most power equipment will either efi or have some sort of electronic management system.

I dont fault ariens they are trying to be at the forefront of efi and will be better for it compared to the other manufacturers once the epa mandates it.

Stihl and husqvarna have electronic systems auto tune on certain chainsaws and have had problems with them. They monitor air fuel ratios and timing for the conditions and adjust accordingly.

Stihl is the gold standard in handheld equipment and they are having problems with new technology. It comes with the territory when releasing new technology.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
#75 · (Edited)
My neighbor has an Ariens Model #921049 Deluxe 30 with the 306cc EFI engine. It had not been started for a few months. I went over today to help her with a number of things and she mentioned that the snowblower had not been started for a while.

I checked the oil and put in some fresh gas. I turned the key and could hear the EFI come to life. I tried the recoil starter a few times without success. Then I plugged in an extension cord and tried the electric start. It almost sounds like it's going to fire, but then doesn't.

It started dripping a little fuel, so I stopped trying. Is there any secret to starting the EFI that I should know about, or is it just time to pull the sparkplug and clear the cylinder?
 
#77 ·
I turned the key and could hear the EFI come to life.
At this point, I believe the EFI battery is just depleted. The owner can't locate the EFI battery charger. Can anyone confirm the specs on their charger? I have several configurable chargers that I can use to simulate it. From my research, I believe it is 7.2VDC @ 300mA, with + on the square side.
 
#76 ·
There has been some discussion on flooding EFI systems after long sitting, here in this forum. Might be able to track down the culprit by reading the thread.
 
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#78 ·
He can buy a new one for $23 and two day delivery. As its fairly specialized and he'll need one going forward, it doesn't make sense to jury rig a charging setup. (This is an aftermarket unit.)
https://a.co/d/hwS52Du

Or OEM for $27 (1 to 6 day delivery).
 
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