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EFI Problems

19K views 80 replies 26 participants last post by  tabora 
#1 ·
Problems with EFI?
 

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#4 ·
@Jackmels

I don't understand how a picture of an apparent assault of a woman by two men relates to the title of this thread? Perhaps you could explain the picture, and its relevance to the title?
 
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#6 ·
Have we had a new thread start recently about a snowblower with EFI issues? Maybe something that would have begun in late October or early November? I can't recall a new thread, hmmm......................
 
#9 ·
I'm at the Arien Dealers at least three times a week....the owner is one of my x-high school students back in my previous life....he's 60 so guess I've over the hill. I asked him abut the EFI yesterday, to see if he liked them any better then last year......He said we sell a lot of them, but no I don't like them....his head mechanic is knowledgeable about the system and has gone through the training seminars from the factory, and he HATES it. It all boils down to the potential advantages vs. the extra cost to buy and maintain, and how hard for the homeowner to service it....
 
#11 ·
"He sells a lot of them . . " but yet no mention of a problem rate, just an irrelevant emothional statement of "I hate them" . . . Hmmm.

Maybe because he gets *less* service revenue? <ducks>

Seriously, if they are selling that well, only 2 or so problem posts here should be a testament to reliability . . . (and the only problems I have read have pretty much been "right out of the box" and not operational issues).

Seriously, I try to keep this down to technology, failure rate, etc. Emotional reactions of like, hate, etc. mean nothing in this context. Like or don't like - anyones choice, but that in itself means nothing to the quality or relibility of the machine.

? ? ?
 
#12 ·
@tad,

I am in agreement, and it is pretty evident, that in the years to come, EFI, or some form of it, will be on all small engines.

I mean, why are cars not produced anymore with carburetors. Technology and the times change, one has to move on, and I am sure there are some that don't like it.

Remember incandescent light bulbs … :) Now there all LED. Remember the phone on the wall, or the black one on the table with the barbell type handset … lol …. Hey, how about when snowblowers were sold with chains on a lawn tire, instead of like now, with the proper XTrac or SnowHogs Tread…. :)

I personally had all my blowers given to me, and never had to buy one, and never will have to, as there are too many out there that are neglected and discarded, allowing people like me and others here, to reap the benefit of never having to buy one. But if I were to buy one today, it would be with the latest technology for sure. With that being said, can someone buy something new and still f...k it up, … :) … most certainly.
 
#13 ·
At the service counter at some random Ariens dealership on the east coast. "Hey can I help ya?" "Why yes mister service guy my snowblower is hard to start, or runs rough or won't start and I think it may be the carb, maybe." The service guy replies "Yer a homeowner right? go home and service it yerself".
 
#14 ·
oneacer your so correct

IMM i see that with CA carb's pushing we will be seeing cats pretty soon, flowed by everything EFI , cats have been made for some time as retro fits with good results, engines i have retro'd with kits from bluecat run good and sure smell cleaner . https://www.nettinc.com/products/3-...-small-spark-ignited-engines-emission-control

my first try it engine is a 25 hp kohler twin on my lawn tractor 300 hours later still runs great if only i could say that about the transaxle
 
#16 ·
EFI has a long enough history as a concept that there's no reason it can't work well on a snowblower. I think some of the flaws come down to trying to keep the system a little too simple and cheap. If they went to key start and had a 12v battery on board, some of the components would likely be a bit less specialized, meaning they could use more off the shelf parts, diagnostics protocols, etc. to make them easier to service.



And of course, like any piece of technology, it's hard to fix it or know why it's behaving the way it is if you don't know enough about how it works. So some implementation specific info being put out there in a good service manual that's not just aimed at scripted diagnostics would be good.
 
#18 ·
The 7.2v battery used is as common as many car batteries - it's just a 6 cell RC car/plane/whatever pack . . . And you can't freeze NiMH, unlike lead acid if let to get too low. Seems like a really good pick from here - far more common and cheaper than small gel or AGM batteries, and likely a voltage far more compatible with a lot of the parts in use. The service info makes it look like they are basically using RC servo technology/chips for the throttle servo, and mkst other electronics run on 5 anyhow, so plenty of headroom. Heck, given the fueling curves, this is something that could likely be deployed on something like an Arduino board . . .
 
#17 ·
I can see EFI for commercial users and people in the big snow areas.We just don’t get snow we used to in the great lakes area.
We are lucky to use our SB 10 times a season.
If they can get the price down and include a long lasting battery to keep the efi working then they will sell around here
 
#22 ·
Maybe $250, shouldn't be more than days if they are not backed up (or criminally stupid) and warrantly is irrelevant. If that's the case, find a competent dealer . . .

You will likely spend more over the years cleaning and maintaining an obsolete carb system.

Bonehead simple, 5 parts . . .
 
#23 ·
Well, I've replaced the carb once in 26 years on my Tecumseh 8 HP, it cost me $16. I was thinking about replacing it again but it now cost's almost $20. It's still working okay but should be rebuilt soon. Why rebuild when replace is so cheap and easy. EFI will never be that way. There's nothing wrong with carburetors, all of my race cars have had them. They are very simple devices that rarely break but need cleaning and adjusting more frequently than most people are willing to do. Apparently, some would rather pay $500 for something that involves electronic complication which can be unreliable and can cost hundreds to repair. It's coming for these machines but not yet ready. Why be the guinea pig that the company wants to use as a test bed? Your repair money will help pay for their R&D as they learn about all the weaknesses in their new system. Modern ethanol fuel is the real enemy of carburetors and if you choose to use it, then follow the recommendations for it's use with your machine and no problems.
 
#25 ·
One mans disaster is another mans opportunity..:)
Put me down for the "opportunity" cagetory!

Sarcasm aside, I do understand the concerns with EFT regarding complexity, and cost to repair. The cost side of the equation should improve once EFI systems are more common... carburetors didn't cost (the equivalent of) $16 when they first came out either. And IMHO EFI systems have the potential to be more reliable which also impacts cost... replacing a $16 carburetor costs more than not replacing a $250 EFI module. All other factors aside, simpler systems do tend to be more reliable, but complex systems can be reliable too if they're designed properly.

And EFI isn't just a new "shiny object"... it can have real benefits. Does anyone remember the carbureted cars from the 1970s where if you had to start the engine only once during a trip it was a miracle? Drivability, fuel economy, emissions, and performance all improved when EFI was introduced in cars... at least once the early bugs were worked out.
 
#38 ·
Ha! Ha! Do you really think that paying $500 for a $250 overpriced fuel injection system that doesn't break down is cheaper than buying a $20 carb every 10 years? Give me a break. Then if it does break down I should take it to the dealers shop? Take it to the shop are you kidding, I would never! Do you realize how much I paid for this thing? Do you really think that I'm going to let some one else mess with it???? This is mine! It's been re-built and tuned by ME!! Keep your hands off!!!
 
#40 · (Edited)
Nope, never said that, maybe reread my post. My point was that for 99% of owners, (not the 1% like us on the forum) that their snowblower, (not yours you are the 1%) are going to the dealer regardless of the issue. From my post, "I'm not saying that EFI is less expensive or easy to repair or less costly to repair I'm saying that either system is just as likely to end up in the repair shop if it has issues.
 
#41 · (Edited)
Pardon my post, it wasn't aimed at you. I agree with what you're saying. I was talking about ELAW's post which said "And IMHO EFI systems have the potential to be more reliable which also impacts cost... replacing a $16 carburetor costs more than not replacing a $250 EFI module." Aparently forgetting that it cost $500 just for the privelidge of owning and testing a new, complex EFI system. He also said something to the effect of carburetors not costing as little as $16 when they were introduced. Right, they probably cost as little as a dollar or two, maybe .75 even. In 1925 a Model T cost under $300. I'm sure the carb didn't cost much at all. I'm also sure that it just got more expensive from that point on. Likewise, I don't expect the price of EFI to drop any faster than the price of a new snowblower. If it does, it still won't be anything I will want or need. K.I.S.S. B.T.W. ELAW I have a 70's car with a carburetor. It's a 1972 Pontiac Catalina Convertible. It always starts immediately and never have I had to restart it while on a trip because it stalled. Granted they got worse from there when in 1973 they started using cats and leaned out the mixture but a jet change and re-tune is cheap and easy. If you've never driven a carburetor or have forgotten what it's like to step on the gas and get instantaneous response from a well tuned engine go find one and try it. It sure beats stomping on the gas and waiting for the computer to rev up the engine a little. Drive by wire systems are even worse, they won't open the throttle all the way when you want, only when their programming says it's okay. Torque control, it may save the driveline from idiots but it sure makes for some dull engine response.
 
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