Ariens hard to turn over, binds - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 Old 03-15-2014, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Talking Ariens hard to turn over, binds

I am trying to fix a virtually new 11hp Ariens snowblower for a friend of a friend. Her son put oil in the gas tank instead of gas. It did not work out well. Two people said the motor was shot. I find it hard to believe that the motor is hot so yesterday I cleaned out the fuel system. it seems that had already been done so it now has good gas in it. I pulled the rope on the starter and it moved a little then jammed; same thing with the electric starter. I removed the spark plug and pulled the starter and it spat out some liquid which I assumed could be excess oil. With the plug out it turned over fine. With the plug back in it was better but would jam. The difference is this time I was able to pull and get past that point so it would turn more. With the electric starter it moved then jammed but then got past that point and turned again. I squirted some engine starter in the carb and it started and ran great. After a while I stopped the engine and tried to pull the recoil starter and it would hit a spot where it jammed put I could pull harder and get past that point. The electric stared seems to work fine now but I would like to fix the problem where it binds. Any ideas? I am thinking a valve but I don't see what permanent damage would be caused by putting oil in the gas tank as long as everything was cleaned out. The first person said it has bad seals but I find that hard to believe. I would like to give this back to this (nice looking, recently divorced) lady working like new.
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post #2 of 10 Old 03-15-2014, 12:18 PM
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i would remove the spark plug and try turning the motor over with the pull rope. if it turns over with the rope without binding i then would turn it over once with the electric start. as it is turning over with the electric start you should here compression being expelled thru the spark plug hole. you can check for this by covering (not inserting your finger in) the spark plug hole. if it was hydro locked and someone tried to turn it over with the plug in it is possable you bent something in the process. if it has compression then you could hope the crank or valves are not bent. if it does crank without the plug and doesn't knock then i would prime the cylinder with a small dash of fuel ,install the sparkplug and see if it runs. it might smoke when it first starts and should clear . as long as it doesn't knock while running i'd say it be ok. let us know how it turns out. by the way i did the same with a chain saw years ago! filled the gas with oil and it wouldn't run. once it was flushed and restarted it was ok!
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post #3 of 10 Old 03-15-2014, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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I can get it to run.

Hi MKD. I think you only read part of my message (please don't think I am being a wise guy. I am grateful for your input). I can get it to run but when turning it over by hand it binds, yet I can pull harder and get past that point and it will turn better and even start. I was hoping to fix whatever causes the occasional binding.
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post #4 of 10 Old 03-15-2014, 12:42 PM
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Sorry cant help but pics of the owner wouldn't hurt
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post #5 of 10 Old 03-15-2014, 01:08 PM
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I would also drain the oil, and put in fresh oil. If the user put oil in the gas tank, they could have also put gas in the "oil tank". That may be helping to cause the hydro-locking type symptom.

Maybe you could persuade the owner to stand near the machine while you shoot some pictures of the machine for "debugging" purposes only.
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post #6 of 10 Old 03-15-2014, 01:24 PM
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Is this an OHV engine? It's possible the valves are adjusted wrong, and the compression release is not working, as a result.

If it's an OHV, checking the valve clearances could be worth a shot.

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post #7 of 10 Old 03-15-2014, 02:11 PM
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rminn! does it bind with the spark plug removed? thinking the binding is from compression.
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post #8 of 10 Old 03-15-2014, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rminnehan View Post
I am trying to fix a virtually new 11hp Ariens snowblower for a friend of a friend. Her son put oil in the gas tank instead of gas. .... With the plug back in it was better but would jam. The difference is this time I was able to pull and get past that point so it would turn more. With the electric starter it moved then jammed but then got past that point and turned again. I squirted some engine starter in the carb and it started and ran great. After a while I stopped the engine and tried to pull the recoil starter and it would hit a spot where it jammed put I could pull harder and get past that point. The electric stared seems to work fine now but I would like to fix the problem where it binds. Any ideas?
It does seem to be compression related, as it runs fine after you get it started. I guesssing, but I think what I would try is to add a little Marvel Mystery oil to the gas tank. Perhaps that might clean out whatever oil residue might be left in the cylinder.

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post #9 of 10 Old 03-15-2014, 03:43 PM
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I would hook up my compression gauge. you might have so much sludge from the oil that the reduced volume is causing too much compression. If so you could try filling the cylinder with sea foam and letting it soak in, then turning over with the plug out.

I wonder if you plugged up the muffler or if the exhaust valve is not opening on it's own.

Maybe timing slipped a tooth when you were forcing it during hydro lock?

Just throwing ideas out, I would start with a compression test and try to see if the valves are opening as they should. I'd bet there is sludge in the combustion chamber.

Most people are going to do whatever they want. What I find entertaining is how people justify what they do.
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post #10 of 10 Old 03-15-2014, 05:32 PM
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Try putting some decent tension on the pull-start, and keep pulling like that, when you get to the compression stroke. Does the cord slowly keep coming out, and the engine gradually turns? Or does it just kind of hit the compression phase and stop?

A compression test can be influenced by the empty volume inside the cylinder (like if there was a massive amount of carbon buildup), how fast you pull the cord, etc.

A leakdown test is independent of those things. And is also probably out-of-scope here. But keeping slow, constant tension on the cord, to see what the engine does, might tell us something. It would essentially ignore things like the empty volume in the cylinder.

If the engine basically just stops turning, that to me would imply that the valves are fully closed, and the compression release is not working. Possibly due to the valve clearances being too large, or something else.

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