How much is too much power - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 03-03-2015, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 85
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 0
How much is too much power

Thanks for the help
I have a 5hp 24" Ariens 932006 and my friend cracked a block on a 7hp 724 and just got the preditor engine from HF, then gave me the old 7hp I can hear the connecting rod is snaped. I see blocks for $75 is it too big for this tractor also it only has one shaft and the old 932006 has the cam shaft pully. Can that be added. I've see talk of reverseing the drive?
Ken692 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 03-03-2015, 10:19 PM
Super Moderator
 
Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 9,145
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 511
Thanks (Received): 682
Likes (Given): 3849
Likes (Received): 1479
Garage
To answer your question there is useable power and there is braggin' power. It's a little foggy where one ends and the other begins but for a 24" blower IMHO I think 5hp is the least you'd want and 10 or 12 would be the most it might be able to use in more than bucket deep snow. 7 or 8 is good for that size as it has the guts if you get deep heavy snow.

Can't speak to the dual drive but I've seen articles here on doing it.

.
Make sure the windows are up before the snow plow goes by !!

Please help keep the lights on by subscribing:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kiss4aFrog is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 03-03-2015, 10:27 PM
Senior Member
 
micah68kj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: S. C. Pa. 39.755928, -77.577766
Posts: 4,914
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 139
Thanks (Received): 274
Likes (Given): 376
Likes (Received): 923
IMHO a 5 hp is a bit on the light side for 24". Others will say differently. 6-7 for 24". 7-8 for 26". Those combinations are tried and proven.

Joe

Sent from my junky old Hisense 7" tablet that I can barely see.
Toro 724
Toro CCR 3650E
Toro 5/21 sold
Ariens 5/22 ss ..Sold
Ariens Sno Tek 7/24 sold.
Old green plastic snow shovel... Sent.to shovel Heaven
Old quarry shovel for ice.
New.green shovel
micah68kj is online now  
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 2 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Likes Kiss4aFrog, gsnod liked this post
post #4 of 14 Old 03-03-2015, 11:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Cardo111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: The Lower Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 1,052
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 52
Thanks (Received): 124
Likes (Given): 78
Likes (Received): 167
An interesting thread. I don't think you can have too much power in a commercially available snow blower. I personally thought that my Ariens Deluxe 28 model:921030 with The LCT built AX254 motor is underpowered for a machine of this size and weight. It bothered me enough to add 100's of dollars after selling it to get a unit with a bigger engine. I was very pleased with the regular Deluxe 28's build quality and throwing distance, however it would bog down on the plow pile (unless you moved at a snail's pace & chipped away at it very slowly) which was very frustrating to me because my old 26 inch MTD 640F seemed to have more power for the plow pile. So for my needs and the ability to work the town plow pile at your driveway's apron more quickly, it is worth the extra money required to buy a machine with a bigger engine.

Ariens Platinum 24 SHO w/369cc carbureted LCT motor


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Cardo111; 08-20-2015 at 08:41 PM.
Cardo111 is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 03-04-2015, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 85
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 0
Awesome I do feel 5hp is just a bit short on power, is it worth the effort to rebuild this Tecumseh 7hp, I see all the parts online for $80 but I like the $99 Honda clone, I beleve the older Tecumseh was a great motor, sad but the 724 had bolts in the augers
Ken692 is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 03-04-2015, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 85
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 0
Here is what I've gotten for $40 nice block with carb and muffler
Looks like I'm in this with both feet
Any info on the double pully will be great, is there a way to add this
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image_1425444147433.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	114.4 KB
ID:	44929   Click image for larger version

Name:	image_1425444225010.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	114.6 KB
ID:	44937  

Last edited by Ken692; 03-04-2015 at 12:41 AM.
Ken692 is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 03-04-2015, 02:05 AM
Super Moderator
 
Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 9,145
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 511
Thanks (Received): 682
Likes (Given): 3849
Likes (Received): 1479
Garage
But yours isn't going to be an easy predator bolt in due to the need for the second drive. You're going to need to do some tinkering to make it work.

Easiest would be to find another twin shaft but they are scarce and usually can command pretty good $$.

You need to do the research to see which way will work out best for you.

And here is a link to a beautifully re-powered old Ariens with a 20hp twin cylinder.
https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum...r-pics-me.html

.
Make sure the windows are up before the snow plow goes by !!

Please help keep the lights on by subscribing:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kiss4aFrog is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 03-04-2015, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 85
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 0
Yes I think I'm building up the wrong engine, but with $40 $50 in total cost so far it's a nice 7hp to bolt the blown motor parts onto, **** single shaft double shaft thing
Ken692 is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 03-04-2015, 05:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Cleveland snow belt
Posts: 260
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 3
Thanks (Received): 4
Likes (Given): 2
Likes (Received): 3
Here is my rule of thumb, HP is such a tricky thing to go by (example: a 9-11.5HP are all the same CC's, likewise the 5.5-7HP are the same CC's). So I go by CC's instead of HP. The examples above are for the more modern OHV engines, but it's similar for older L head technology. Two other things to factor in are impeller size + number of blades, and the amount of corrosion in the impeller house and chute launch area.

for 10" impeller - 135-200cc
for 12" impeller - 196-400cc
for 14" impeller - 300-600cc plus dual belts
for 16" impeller - Twin cylinder engine, dual 4L or larger belts
Larger than 16" - multi cylinder tractor engine, hydraulic drive impeller

Add at least 50cc and preferably 100cc to above values if using flat head technology.
Try to remove chute corrosion, use larger engine if you can't get to it right away.

Now as for you 932006 compact...these did not use the large block H engines. They used small block HS engines usually of the HSSK variety which employ extended PTO shafts on the cam and a special machined PTO cover. This PTO rotates in reverse of the crankshaft and at half speed. The cam PTO is very tight up against the main PTO crank cover, and the small block engine is mounted very near the cliff of the blower frame. This makes it difficult (and probably impossible) to mount an H engine on a 932006 frame because the 932006 uses a vertically mounted shift segment that is very tight up against the rear of the frame. Mounting a larger engine that sits rear further will cause interference with this shift segment.

Some H engines did come with an extended PTO cam but these were usually used on tillers and the like. Later compact 420's still used the HS engines even though they moved the segment off the back of the frame, and the very late models even canted the shift fork at about 45 degrees to get the linkage away from the rear of the compact frame.

Re-power options are limited for these because the good 196CC Tecumseh OHV engines with the extended cam PTO were only produced in limited quantities for premium late model 932000 models which haven't been in production for 10-15 years now. No Chinese clones will work. Ariens redesigned the compact transmission in 2004 for the 920000 series so that they would no longer need a supply of PTO cam engines.

The only time I've heard of someone doing a tranny flip is for different brands like MTD that have more spacious frames, and even if you were able to use the crank PTO, that still doesn't overcome the half speed drive issues.

Therefore, The best option to renew a 932000 compact is to find a good running HSSK or HS engine with the cam PTO, or rebuild the original engine that came with the machine.

On Edit: There was an H70 used on some compacts, I'm just not certain it will fit on an ST504 like you have without redoing all the controls and handlebars.
It used extended cam part 33931
Camshaft (MCR) (Extended) and part 31720A Cover, Cylinder (Incl. 24, 24A & 106)

Refer to parts list for H70-130266L

Last edited by HillnGullyRider; 03-04-2015 at 08:58 AM.
HillnGullyRider is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 03-04-2015, 07:40 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 864
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 17
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiss4aFrog View Post
To answer your question there is useable power and there is braggin' power. It's a little foggy where one ends and the other begins but for a 24" blower IMHO I think 5hp is the least you'd want and 10 or 12 would be the most it might be able to use in more than bucket deep snow. 7 or 8 is good for that size as it has the guts if you get deep heavy snow.

Can't speak to the dual drive but I've seen articles here on doing it.


ditto, what he said. good post. 10HP should be plenty unless you're being hit with 12" snows twice a week, the extra power would clear it a little faster. but those big HP engines use fuel faster too, just something to keep in mind.

the machines I use a lot this year, are only 5HP and 8HP.
the big 10HP sits collecting ice...

think of it this way, if you had to walk around behind your lawn tractor, instead of riding it, would you want a 15HP or 20HP engine on it ? or an 8HP ?

there's something about walk-behind equipment that beyond a certain point, if it's a really big machine, one starts to look silly hanging on to the handle bars walking behind steering it.
like, "shouldn't you be riding with that big engine already ??" thought comes to mind.
it starts resembling walking behind a car with handlebars on it.




just say NO to Chinese made ANYTHING !
1967 S-242 Snowbird 4/24
AMF Dynamark Luminaire 5362 8/26 3-stage
Craftsman Drift Breaker 10/32 3-stage
Gilson 55012 8/26 gear drive
Ariens 910010 8/32
Cub Cadet 268 8/26
Yard-Man Snowbird 7040-0 5/22
Ariens 10M-L35 3.5/24
New Holland/Gilson Unitrol 8/26
(2) AMF Polar Bear 7/26 3-stage project/parts machines

Last edited by greatwhitebuffalo; 03-04-2015 at 06:15 PM.
greatwhitebuffalo is offline  
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Likes ChrisJ liked this post
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome