Why Briggs on the Pro series - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
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post #1 of 25 Old 10-29-2015, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Why Briggs on the Pro series

So its been years now that ariens has had the AX engines out and they have the 414 putting out 20ft-lbs. There is lots of claims on how the LCT/AX motors are rated for 4x the life of the briggs. I am sure ariens has a better price point on the AX motors for more profit. It all makes me wonder why does ariens still use the briggs motor on the pro line. Is it all about that 1ft-lb more or are there other benefits of the 2100? I have not found anywhere that states what the life expectancy is of the polar force 2100.
I apologize if this has been covered. I used the best google-foo that i had tonight for the past 20 min and cant find any info.
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post #2 of 25 Old 10-29-2015, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Noreaster View Post
So its been years now that ariens has had the AX engines out and they have the 414 putting out 20ft-lbs. There is lots of claims on how the LCT/AX motors are rated for 4x the life of the briggs. I am sure ariens has a better price point on the AX motors for more profit. It all makes me wonder why does ariens still use the briggs motor on the pro line. Is it all about that 1ft-lb more or are there other benefits of the 2100? I have not found anywhere that states what the life expectancy is of the polar force 2100.
I apologize if this has been covered. I used the best google-foo that i had tonight for the past 20 min and cant find any info.

Good question. I think Ariens believes that their target customer for this high
End machine would want a Briggs branded engine over a known China built manufacturer, even though we all know that the Briggs engine is made in China. Both engines are designed/engineered in the U.S.

In my research of the Briggs when I was considering a Pro 28, it seemed like the Polar Force had more covers, over the spark plug, and the carb is harder to drain. The main benefit that I could see was the fuel tank is much larger than the LCT's, which is a nice feature on an engine of this size. Although I like the low profile design of the GEN III LCT engines, they are easier to see over if you are not very tall.

Additionally the Briggs engine on the Ariens machines are warranted through authorized Briggs dealers (which most Ariens dealers should be), not through Ariens like the LCT engines.

Last edited by Cardo111; 10-30-2015 at 03:51 AM.
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post #3 of 25 Old 10-29-2015, 07:22 PM
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is the briggs really a briggs ? or is that decal aimed at brand loyalty ?
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post #4 of 25 Old 10-30-2015, 12:36 AM
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Briggs is still a Briggs. Even if they are made in china now like everything else. They are good engines and owned and designed by the original B&S company.

Tecumseh on the other hand..
In 2007, the company's former gasoline engine and power train product lines, which is what the company had been most known for, were sold to Platinum Equity LLC, which does business as Tecumseh Power. Tecumseh engine products at one time were sold in over 120 countries. In December 2008, the company closed its engine manufacturing division.[4] TecumsehPower sold off its Peerless transmissions business to Husqvarna Outdoor Products.[4]
On February 10, 2009, Platinum Equity LLC announced that Tecumseh Power Company had sold certain assets of its engine business to Certified Parts Corporation. This included the sale of existing and unfinished engine parts inventory, tools to make finished product and certain intellectual property assets. Certified Parts Corporation also assumed responsibility for warranty of previous engine sales.[5]
In an interview published by The Janesville Gazette on February 10, 2009, Certified Parts Corporation President Jim Grafft said "that he plans to move the engine operation to Rock County, Wisconsin, where he owns three facilities in Janesville and one in Edgerton, and will initially supply parts for Tecumseh Power engines. Grafft also said that his company could eventually resume engine production, which Tecumseh Power ceased in December 2008".
On September 1, 2010, Certified Parts Corporation (CPC) of Janesville, WI announced it had entered into an agreement with LCT, (Liquid Combustion Technology) of Travelers Rest, SC to jointly manufacture air-cooled engines for the outdoor power equipment market. The agreement provided CPC with engineering, manufacturing, and sales capabilities allowing it to reintroduce the Snow King line of snow thrower engines and other engines formerly manufactured and sold by TecumsehPower. The engines are exclusively represented by LCT, and sold under the Snow King, Lauson, and LCT brands and serviced exclusively by CPC and the existing TecumsehPower dealer/distributor network. Traditionally, the Snow King line of engines had powered more snowthrowers than all other brands combined.
LCT's horizontal 4-stroke gasoline engine product offering was extended by this agreement and allowed CPC and LCT to provide single cylinder and V-twin vertical engines to outdoor power equipment manufacturers. According to Larry Zeman, VP of Winter Engine Products for LCT, "This establishes LCT as an engine manufacturer of choice as it continues to engineer a new generation of power."
(Taken from Wikipedia)
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post #5 of 25 Old 10-30-2015, 06:49 AM
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Briggs is still a Briggs. Even if they are made in china now like everything else. They are good engines and owned and designed by the original B&S company.

Tecumseh on the other hand..
In 2007, the company's former gasoline engine and power train product lines, which is what the company had been most known for, were sold to Platinum Equity LLC, which does business as Tecumseh Power. Tecumseh engine products at one time were sold in over 120 countries. In December 2008, the company closed its engine manufacturing division.[4] TecumsehPower sold off its Peerless transmissions business to Husqvarna Outdoor Products.[4]
On February 10, 2009, Platinum Equity LLC announced that Tecumseh Power Company had sold certain assets of its engine business to Certified Parts Corporation. This included the sale of existing and unfinished engine parts inventory, tools to make finished product and certain intellectual property assets. Certified Parts Corporation also assumed responsibility for warranty of previous engine sales.[5]
In an interview published by The Janesville Gazette on February 10, 2009, Certified Parts Corporation President Jim Grafft said "that he plans to move the engine operation to Rock County, Wisconsin, where he owns three facilities in Janesville and one in Edgerton, and will initially supply parts for Tecumseh Power engines. Grafft also said that his company could eventually resume engine production, which Tecumseh Power ceased in December 2008".
On September 1, 2010, Certified Parts Corporation (CPC) of Janesville, WI announced it had entered into an agreement with LCT, (Liquid Combustion Technology) of Travelers Rest, SC to jointly manufacture air-cooled engines for the outdoor power equipment market. The agreement provided CPC with engineering, manufacturing, and sales capabilities allowing it to reintroduce the Snow King line of snow thrower engines and other engines formerly manufactured and sold by TecumsehPower. The engines are exclusively represented by LCT, and sold under the Snow King, Lauson, and LCT brands and serviced exclusively by CPC and the existing TecumsehPower dealer/distributor network. Traditionally, the Snow King line of engines had powered more snowthrowers than all other brands combined.
LCT's horizontal 4-stroke gasoline engine product offering was extended by this agreement and allowed CPC and LCT to provide single cylinder and V-twin vertical engines to outdoor power equipment manufacturers. According to Larry Zeman, VP of Winter Engine Products for LCT, "This establishes LCT as an engine manufacturer of choice as it continues to engineer a new generation of power."
(Taken from Wikipedia)
I am still confused on the 2nd part of that.

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post #6 of 25 Old 10-30-2015, 07:26 AM
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My interpretation is that when Tecumseh closed, they sold their remaining parts, tooling, and designs to CPC. CPC then partnered with LCT and presumably transferred the tooling and designs to them, which LCT is now using to make engines under their own name.

I'm not a big fan of Chinese stuff in general, but at least it sounds like LCT tried to do things the right way, in the sense that they paid for the designs instead of reverse-engineering and copying another manufacturer's engines.

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post #7 of 25 Old 10-30-2015, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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There are not many choices when it comes to these engines. Well at least choices of companies that are trying to produce quality innovative product. (as opposed to someone grabbing an expired patent and trying to reproduce it as cheap as possible). I do wish Kawasaki would get into the market.

Briggs is a competitor of ariens and that was one of the original reasons they introduced the AX line by LCT. It seems to me that the AX line would be a better profit for them now that they get to sell the engine parts as well as the blower parts. For a consumer i like the idea of the entire machine being covered by 1 warranty entity. This business model makes sense from a corporate perspective as well.

I am just wondering whats so special about the briggs that they keep it on the pro series? Is it really just the name? Is it the 1ft-lb more? Is the 2100 special and superior in some way to the LTC offerings?

I have not owned an intek snow, or a current briggs snow motor, yet. But i am rather looking forward to it. (i have a pro 28 hydro on the way). The Tecumseh motors i have had in the past were tinkerers - it seemed that the carb tunnings would change with the weather on my old L-head, and i was fortunate enough to enjoy a OHSK-120 with the square gas tank, whos gas flow was not strong enough to feed the motor when there was less than half a tank of gas. (the OEM fix was a piece of foam on the bottom of the gas tank that made it look empty once you are down to 1/3rd a tank. Didn't really notice until the tank had to be replaced. So i am rather tired of the Tecumseh heritage at the moment.

Hopefully, This motor is as nice as the blower. I think ariens is the one manufacture where the motor gets tired before the blower.

Last edited by Noreaster; 10-30-2015 at 09:11 AM.
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post #8 of 25 Old 10-30-2015, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noreaster View Post

I am just wondering whats so special about the briggs that they keep it on the pro series? Is it really just the name?
I have no proof of this, just an assumption, but IMO its most likely that yes, it's really just the name..

Its somewhat common knowledge (for the moderately educated snowblower shopper) that all the snowblower manufacturers are now using engines made in China..for their "own" engines.

But its perhaps somewhat less common knowledge (for the less educated snowblower shopper, even the "rich" ones) that all Briggs engines are *also* now made in China..

Here in this forum, we all know there is no real difference..the engines are ALL made in China, even the Briggs engines..but the Briggs brand name still enjoys a certain air of "Made in the USA quality" , and a perceived higher quality difference than those "other" engines..(again..even though we know there is now no real difference..ALL the current snowblower engines (on the well-known brand name machines) have decent engines, and all are made in china)

So i think its just about the perception that Ariens wants for their "Pro" series..buyers at that level want that "perceived" quality difference that the Briggs brand name gives them..whether or not the quality difference is actually real or not is beside the point! its all about perception..its most likely just a smart marketing choice.

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post #9 of 25 Old 10-30-2015, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Noreaster View Post
I am sure ariens has a better price point on the AX motors for more profit. .

I doubt this very much. As a for-profit company, Ariens would make a choice like this only to generate more profit. It may not be for the obvious reasons, but somewhere along the line, it was determined that a Briggs engine (or at least the Briggs decal) would be result in more profit than the AX.
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post #10 of 25 Old 10-30-2015, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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So there have been 2 posts hinting to just a briggs decal.
Whats the thought process here? Are there suspicions Briggs is re-branding a 3rd party motor? I was under the impression that the motor is made in china, but is still made to the briggs engineered specs and plans.

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