Ariens Compact 24 LE #920021 - No Fire - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
 
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post #1 of 7 Old 11-24-2015, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Ariens Compact 24 LE #920021 - No Fire

A neighbor with an Ariens #920021 Compact 24 LE two-stage e-start
snowblower dropped by to ask for help with a beginning-of-season
no-fire problem.

This machine has VERY little time. I believe it was purchased near the
end of the 2013-14 season. Last run during the 2014/15 season then
parked with fuel off, but no stabilizer. Fuel grade unknown.

The machine is so little-used, the owner is uncertain about the start-up
routine. Today he relied on the seven step procedure label afixed to
the engine:
  • Safety Key inserted,
  • Engine Rocker,
  • Switch on,
  • Choke on,
  • Fuel Shutoff on,
  • Primer activated 3 times
  • E-Start activated
No joy. He repeated procedure several times (knows to limit starter
run-time and to wait for an interval between every three attempts)
before asking for help. He tells me the machine started essentially
instantly in the past.

This is my first upclose look at an Ariens.

I checked for fuel in the tank, reviewed the starting procedure, asked
about additional operator interlocks (trans in neutral, squeeze grips
ect ...). Tried starting - turns over fast with no hint of firing.
Opened carb drain and collected a clean-looking fuel sample with just
one small fleck of debris. Removed plug to find ground electrode and
insulator wet. Applied electrical contact cleaner, dried, reinstalled
and tried starting again (no choke, no primer) - no hint of firing.

Before I research Ariens carburetors in preparation for dropping the
bowl to examine jets/passages for varnish blockage, is there anything
else to try?

.
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post #2 of 7 Old 11-24-2015, 04:46 PM
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Garage
follow the advice given here, start at the beginning.

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum...not-start.html

24 " 1967? Ariens Sno thro
28 " Ariens Sno Tek
Toro CCR ss
1966 Gravely LI Walk behind with dog eater

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post #3 of 7 Old 11-24-2015, 04:47 PM
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When you say " Removed plug to find ground electrode and insulator wet" is that with gas ? then you know you have fuel but we don't know what condition the gas is in. It may be in the unignitable stage, meaning it will be necessary to drain all gas from tank and fill with fresh gas. I will still say to check the key FIRST, that it's all the way in, passed the point of a solid CLICK otherwise you don't have a chance of starting because it's grounding out the ignition system and that is it's purpose from a safety stand point.

Late addition:
I see this model has a switch besides the key. Make sure that is in the ON position

Last edited by all3939; 11-24-2015 at 05:02 PM.
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post #4 of 7 Old 11-24-2015, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyCurr View Post
A neighbor with an Ariens #920021 Compact 24 LE two-stage e-start
snowblower dropped by to ask for help with a beginning-of-season
no-fire problem.

This machine has VERY little time. I believe it was purchased near the
end of the 2013-14 season. Last run during the 2014/15 season then
parked with fuel off, but no stabilizer. Fuel grade unknown.

The machine is so little-used, the owner is uncertain about the start-up
routine. Today he relied on the seven step procedure label afixed to
the engine:
  • Safety Key inserted,
  • Engine Rocker,
  • Switch on,
  • Choke on,
  • Fuel Shutoff on,
  • Primer activated 3 times
  • E-Start activated
No joy. He repeated procedure several times (knows to limit starter
run-time and to wait for an interval between every three attempts)
before asking for help. He tells me the machine started essentially
instantly in the past.

This is my first upclose look at an Ariens.

I checked for fuel in the tank, reviewed the starting procedure, asked
about additional operator interlocks (trans in neutral, squeeze grips
ect ...). Tried starting - turns over fast with no hint of firing.
Opened carb drain and collected a clean-looking fuel sample with just
one small fleck of debris. Removed plug to find ground electrode and
insulator wet. Applied electrical contact cleaner, dried, reinstalled
and tried starting again (no choke, no primer) - no hint of firing.

Before I research Ariens carburetors in preparation for dropping the
bowl to examine jets/passages for varnish blockage, is there anything
else to try?

.
Assuming the gas is good I bet the engine is still flooded mainly because at this time of the year there is no need to press 3 times the primer with choke.
Instead the start schedule for the gas part is without choke press the primer 2 times only and start it but before all this crank it a couple times and remove the spark plug and see if still wet if yes leave plug out and crank many times then put back spark plug and try to start without primer and check plug again if still wet if not then put it back then 2 primer and start. Good Luck

Snow Removal Apparatus I own:
Ariens ST1530DLE, and good ole arm powered scrapper.
The 15 HP is a new Ducar engine sold
by Princess Auto in Canada.
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post #5 of 7 Old 11-24-2015, 05:05 PM
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If you have the AX engine (LCT) check the plug for a good spark (removed and hooked up, grounded to the block). If it's a Torch FR6TC I'd replace it with a good cross like the NGK BPR6ES eventually even if it fires after relieving a flooded situation.
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post #6 of 7 Old 11-24-2015, 06:02 PM
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Just a thought, when you inserted the key did you turn it to the on position?
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post #7 of 7 Old 11-25-2015, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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A post to acknowledge your replies. No new information to add at
this point.

nwcove - thank you for the useful link.

All3939 - yes, wet with fuel. On draining the bowl, the contents
looked/smelled normal with only one small bit of debris. The owner
had topped up the tank with fresh fuel. With the drain plug back in
place, the bowl refilled with no sign of flooding, indicating that
the needle/seat/float are functioning. The bowl then had blended
new/old fuel with better volatility when the next attempt to start
was made without success. Since then, the owner has drained the
bowl and tank and replaced with completely fresh fuel.

caster - the Ariens Safety "Key" is a key-shaped piece of plastic
that is inserted only, not turned. As All3939 mentions, this "key"
wedges open a set of contacts, breaking continuity in a circuit that
would otherwise ground the ignition and prevent firing. I did not
check for electrical continuity, but I did remove and insert the key
ensuring it was fully seated. There is an On/Off rocker switch that
I cycled a couple of times, too.

jtclays - I am not yet familiar with the Arien engine series nomenclature,
but the plug in this #920021 is a Torch F6RTC. Other than being wet,
the plug looked like as you would expect an OEM plug in a nearly new
machine to look, with two exceptions. On close examination, there
seemed to be more clearance gap between the end of the insulator
and the positive electrode than I am familiar with and the end of
the insulator seemed to have a small flake missing. The gap may
be by design, I later saw some marketing hype for Torch plugs that
mention a feature to improve anti-fouling characteristics. I made
a conscious decision NOT to check for spark by grounding the plug
yesterday out of caution, not knowing whether some kind of electronic
ignition is fitted that might be sensitive to such a procedure.
Sounds like there may not be a concern - I have a Lisle #50850
Spark Tester that will be useful for the task.
Image Courtesy of Lisle Corporation
The owner did go back to his dealer yesterday for a replacement plug,
given my observation about the insulator. Brand received unknown
at this point.

Normex, temperatures were a bit cooler here than there yesterday.
(even bigger disparity today: -18C vs -2C), so choke use by the
owner wasn't out of line. Although the engine was not pulled
through while the plug was removed, the c-chamber did have perhaps
15 min to ventilate while I returned to my shop to clean & dry the
plug with contact cleaner. As mentioned in the OP, with a clean dry
plug, vented combustion chamber, new/old blended fuel, switches
& fuel valve on, no prime/choke - the engine didn't so much as give
a feeble sneeze yesterday before we paused to regroup.

Shall post again once we've done a more thorough test for spark
and ect.

Thank you all.

.
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