Auger drive belt lifespan... - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-14-2019, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Palgrave, ON
Posts: 11
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 4
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 1
Likes (Received): 0
Auger drive belt lifespan...

Back in Nov I replaced the auger drive belt on my 1990s era Craftsman 10hp 30" blower (old one was was worn and slipping bad) with a new Dayco AP38 belt, as was suggested as one option in another thread on this forum. All was great until yesterday, when I believed I either broke or sufficiently wore out the belt such that the auger just spins freely when push it by hand. And nothing happens at all when engaging the drive. I will take the belt cover off and look but the fact that it is spinning that freely suggests the belt broke or jumped off the pulleys if that is even possible?

In any case, my question comes down to the applicability of this belt for this application. Yes it is the correct size when you compare all the v-belt dimensions vs the OEM specs, but as others have suggested, the OEM or equivalent belts are perhaps built with kevlar and more suited to this type of application where the belt engagement is acting as a clutch vs a regular belt that runs with the same tension all the time. Being a standard automotive belt, I would think the Dayco option falls into the latter category and not really meant or designed to be used with in a tensioner / clutch application.

Either way though, knowing the design of this belt tensioner based auger engagement mechanism, I do not abuse things, and generally will try to engage the auger at lower RPMs and without a snow load, so as to minimize wear and stress on the belt. I also keep the auger engaged as much as possible vs contstant stop/start. So all that said, still very surprised this belt seems to have let go after just a couple months and about 5 or so moderate (not even heavy) uses.

Anyone else out there have experience / comments with such "automotive class" belts vs the OEM for this application?

Thanks! And I will post a follow-up shortly once I pull the belt cover and have a better idea of what is going on with the belt.
Steveo66 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-14-2019, 12:51 PM
Senior Member
 
oneacer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 856
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 67
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 200
Sounds like either the wrong belt. or something is askew in the belt track system.
oneacer is online now  
Old 02-14-2019, 02:27 PM
Senior Member
 
JLawrence08648's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Lawrenceville NJ
Posts: 2,151
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 89
Thanks (Received): 180
Likes (Given): 69
Likes (Received): 409
Garage
Regardless of Kevlar or not, you could get 10-30 years from a belt, you could get less, but not a few snows or a few weeks, depending on how much snow you get, how often, how deep, how wet.

You need to use mower/blower belts, not auto belts. The side cut angle is different.

Everything needs to be aligned. The belt tension needs to be correct. When not engaged, and some slapping, when engaged almost no slapping or none. Make sure you have belt stays.

I find some belts have an inconsistent belt length. My favorite belts are Pix and D&D Power.

I believe the correct auger belt for Murray is 585416.

1986 Ariens ST522, 5hp, 22"
1995 Murray Craftsman 10hp, 29" w. 12" impeller
A 1983 Real John Deere 10hp, 32" w. 12" impeller, 16" auger, 20" high front, cast iron gear box, chains
Noma 9hp, 27" w. 12" impeller
Noma 5hp, 24" w. 12" impeller, 20" high front
Gravely Convertible, 12hp Kohler cast iron, 26" width, 600 lbs of cast iron & steel, 2 speed impeller, 4 ground speeds
Dynamark 8hp, 26", 12" impeller, for sale
Several other 5hp, 8hp, several 2 cycle, all for sale

Last edited by JLawrence08648; 02-15-2019 at 09:37 PM.
JLawrence08648 is online now  
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Thanks Steveo66 thanked for this post
Old 02-14-2019, 02:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: bolton, ont(north of toronto)
Posts: 792
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 56
Thanks (Received): 64
Likes (Given): 51
Likes (Received): 151
on my 2nd year on a ap38 from carquest, put on for drive and auger with different size, both still run good but ive not taken a look at them yet, afaik its not listed as a typical "fan" belt but are listed as an industrial power belt.
@ ~$6 iirc i figured i'd test them out, no slippage as far as i can tell

Bought a dead but now fixed 1980ish craftsman II 10/28....ITS ONE HEAVY BEAST

MY VIDS ON FIXIN HER UP

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Last edited by vinnycom; 02-14-2019 at 02:39 PM.
vinnycom is online now  
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Thanks Steveo66 thanked for this post
Old 02-14-2019, 05:14 PM
Member
 
Homesteader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 92
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 6
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 33
Auger belts should be live/raw edge belts. Replacement belts wrapped in Kevlar fail early because they don’t have the same gripping force as raw edge and the pulleys glaze and shred wrapped belts.

Wrapped belts are better for systems with constant tension such as drive belts.

Auger belts are engaged constantly and must grab the pulley at 3600 rpm and not slip. Wrapped belts tend to shred in this situation because the slip more getting up to speed and under load.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	10A67AD9-BC58-4C98-9706-5675F104874B_1550178814130.png
Views:	25
Size:	173.6 KB
ID:	153535   Click image for larger version

Name:	410A9F0C-23E2-4C36-B8B7-0A2540FFCF7F_1550178821419.jpeg
Views:	32
Size:	121.4 KB
ID:	153537  

Ariens ST1032 924084 (ST1232)
MODS: Tecumseh OHSK120 12hp, 3" Pulley, 6 Blade Impeller Kit, Hand Warmers w/ on-off switch, 1700 Lumen LED bulb,Front Weight Bar 18.5lbs, Chute Clean Out Tool, Tire Chains, Drift Cutters, Armorskids
Homesteader is offline  
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 3 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Thanks RedOctobyr thanked for this post
Likes kenora, tdipaul, JLawrence08648 liked this post
Old 02-14-2019, 05:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,422
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 5
Thanks (Received): 112
Likes (Given): 13
Likes (Received): 293
You did not mention if the impeller and impeller shaft are also spinning freely when you move the auger rakes.

If the auger spins freely, I think you probably have a broken shear pin. Even with a broken belt, the augers shouldn't spin freely, as they are connected to the impeller shaft through the gearbox.

If both sides of the auger spin free, and no shear pins are broken, then maybe the gearbox is stripped or the key that holds the auger shaft to the gear has broken. That would be confirmed if the augers are free wheeling but the impeller shaft is not moving.

Work fascinates me.
I can watch somebody work for hours...
2008 Craftsman 944.528391 (It's a Husqvarna ST227P)
27", B&S 305cc 13.5 ft/lb Torque 9.5 hp

Last edited by skutflut; 02-14-2019 at 05:54 PM.
skutflut is offline  
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Likes Kiss4aFrog liked this post
Old 02-15-2019, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Palgrave, ON
Posts: 11
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 4
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 1
Likes (Received): 0
Hi All, here is an update -- and thanks for all the replies.

I pulled the belt cover yesterday afternoon for a closer look. Definitely the belt and not a shear pin. Best way I can describe the condition of the belt is areas of shredding as mentioned by Homesteader, and almost broken in one area. I have attached a pic below. I put on a new Dayco AP38 belt, since when I bought the one in November of last year, I picked up a spare too. I decided to test with the belt cover still off in to check for slackness, etc and noticed that even at idle with the auger drive NOT engaged there was still enough friction that the auger was turning, even though the belt was not tight. To me, this is an indication of an adjustment issue on the idler pulley and/or the cable mechanism to engage the drive. Perhaps, this is where I made my mistake in November, as I had adjusted both, but after putting back the belt cover and without testing. I assume things were adjusted too tight, and this was a primary factor in the early belt failure, although I have to say, when I installed the new belt in Nov and made adjustments, even though I did not test with the belt cover off, I am sure I would have noticed if the auger/impeller were turning, even slightly with the drive not being engaged. The other factor is most likely the belt itself, that even though the correct size, not the right type for this application. As Homesteader mentions, I will look to source a live/raw edge belt -- anyone know if the Pix or D&D Power belts as mentioned by JLawrence08648 are of this design?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-02-15, 08_54_15.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	43.1 KB
ID:	153591  
Steveo66 is offline  
Old 02-15-2019, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Palgrave, ON
Posts: 11
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 4
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 1
Likes (Received): 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveo66 View Post
Hi All, here is an update -- and thanks for all the replies.
Had some additional time this morning, so here is another update I thought I would share after some further investigation.

It would seem that the Dayco L440 belt (same size 1/2" by 38") is the better suited belt for this application. I spoke to Carquest and subsequently to Dayco customer service and also found the following info online as per the pic attached, and this L4 series from Dayco is designed for outdoor lawn & garden equipment with belt clutching and back idler pulley for tension - which is exactly what these snowblowers do. I am not partial to Dayco in any way, as they are just one manufacturer, but since my original belt was a Dayco (AP38) I thought I would start there. When I also questioned the Dayco guy on a raw edge belt option, he did indicate that their AX series belts are just that, but he then went on to say that the L series belts are the preferred option in this scenario. Food for thought though.

I do hope this info helps, and would be interested in any follow-up discussion on the raw edge belt design.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-02-15, 11_23_54.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	70.8 KB
ID:	153599  
Steveo66 is offline  
Old 02-16-2019, 12:17 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 462
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 38
Thanks (Received): 81
Likes (Given): 40
Likes (Received): 181
Garage
Belt adjustment is a key priority, many people are not aware of this important step. You can install a belt and it works, but not properly adjusted it WILL fail sooner than expected. Depending on your particular machine the adjustments are similar but different. One of the most common mistakes on older ariens machines I've seen is the fingers for the auger belt adjustment are not correct. You need to have them set so when in the slack position there is enough clearance around the engine pulley to let the belt move away and not touch it at all. Improperly adjusted it may still do it's job..... but if it rubs / slightly touches but not enough to rotate the auger it will burn up over time or damage the belt all the time engine is running and not having the auger engaged. Happens when you just let the engine run and machine sits idle, like when you stop blowing to move something or clean off the stairs and finish the walkway. Just my own observations from working on older stuff.

Ariens 24" 910962 7HP
Ariens 24" 924117 Modified Pro 342cc / 15.50 GT.. Currently Under Construction and testing trials commenced .......
Ariens 32" 924044 Modified Pro 342cc / 16.50 GT
Ariens / Troy Bilt 36" Frankenblower 16HP
~~ And Lastly ~~
Ariens 32" 924??? Double auger & impeller 14HP v-twin BEAST !!!
Plans are being drafted, parts are accumulating in the pile......
Shaw351 is offline  
Old 02-16-2019, 02:23 AM
Super Moderator
 
Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 9,203
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 517
Thanks (Received): 685
Likes (Given): 3898
Likes (Received): 1495
Garage
Have you tired spinning and also wiggling that tensioner pulley to make sure the bearing in it is good ? It seems from the photo it's not in alignment but it might be the camera angle too.

.

.
Make sure the windows are up before the snow plow goes by !!

Please help keep the lights on by subscribing:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kiss4aFrog is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Thread Tools



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Too much tension on auger belt? ssiddall Snowblower Repairs and Maintenance Forum 13 12-18-2016 12:36 PM
JD Auger & Drive Belt Part Numbers gsnod John Deere Snowblowers 3 03-08-2016 10:14 PM
ariens auger and drive belt life survey. po_the_drum Ariens Snowblowers 4 11-24-2015 06:21 PM
Older Toro 1028 wheels won't turn but drive belt is intact Whitewonder Toro Snowblowers 23 11-04-2014 03:27 PM
Auger belt problem BAFFLEDINNJ Snowblower Repairs and Maintenance Forum 11 03-03-2014 10:10 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome