Repower and Trac Rebuild - Craftsman Trac (1987) - 5-23- 536884810 with 5.5HP Honda C - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
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post #1 of 50 Old 12-23-2015, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Repower and Trac Rebuild - Craftsman Trac (1987) - 5-23- 536884810 with 5.5HP Honda C

I extracted this info from my "Beg for manuals" thread to keep that one focused on the manuals.

This thread introduces my recent acquisition:
Craftsman Trac (1987) - 5-23- 536884810 with 5.5HP Honda Clone Engine
Pictures:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...N5N002amU0bEp3

I have the original engine (not fitted)
Pictures:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...FRNWtST1ZOdkNn

This is the Honda Clone Engine
Pictures:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...NSM19zWnB4dnBR

Info on Clone Engine:
Gasoline engine 5.5HP(EPA) (Shanghai Shine Industrial Co., Ltd.,China)

That Clone IS used on snowblowers:
168FA engine , 5.5HP Snow blower, View loncin engine snow blower, Leeyu Product Details from Yongkang Leeyu Import And Export Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com


I now have two major issues to resolve:

1) Trac drive is virtually seized - needs teardown and lubrication

2) The Clone engine has no compression - needs one of 3 things..
2a) Fix the clone engine
2b) Put back the original engine
2c) Get a third engine

I will update this thread if/when I make progress
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post #2 of 50 Old 12-23-2015, 03:19 PM
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Hello stuart, since the clone is already mounted and I/we have no idea what is wrong with the original Tecumseh motor, I would pull the valve cover off and make sure both valves move freely and are not stuck open. No compression would be caused by a valve open or worst case scenario, broken piston rod. You could also remove the spark plug and use a soda straw or wood dowel in the cylinder to feel if the clone piston moves up and down when turning the crankshaft slowly. Let us know what you find.

I can't help with the track drive problem, I have only worked on wheel machines. Sorry.

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post #3 of 50 Old 12-23-2015, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunt View Post
Hello stuart, since the clone is already mounted and I/we have no idea what is wrong with the original Tecumseh motor, I would pull the valve cover off and make sure both valves move freely and are not stuck open. No compression would be caused by a valve open or worst case scenario, broken piston rod. You could also remove the spark plug and use a soda straw or wood dowel in the cylinder to feel if the clone piston moves up and down when turning the crankshaft slowly. Let us know what you find.

I can't help with the track drive problem, I have only worked on wheel machines. Sorry.
Actually, when I say no compression.. I was not being totally accurate. I tried to start it (after carb ultrasound clean) and it coughed and spluttered and backfired a little. That's when I checked compression. (Note to self.. always do that FIRST.. that's why I bought the tester!!).

So, from my minimal experience with things like Leaf blowers, I expect the cylinder or piston to be scored. I will pop off the exhaust soon and peek through the port. I'm expecting to see scratches.. will report what I see.
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post #4 of 50 Old 12-23-2015, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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If anybody has any videos or photos showing the TRAC tear-down and reassembly I would be eternally grateful. I've found nothing on the web. I guess experienced folks would just glance at the exploded diagrams and jump right in. I'm much less experienced and therefore initially hesitant.

Similarly, any step-by-step engine tear-down videos/photos would be very useful. There's more stuff out there on the web for these clone engines, but I've not found a thorough how-to yet. Mostly teenagers trying to disable the RPM regulators on their go-karts. Yikes! I wouldn't want to be sitting on those when things burst through the engine and fire aluminium/aluminum shrapnel in various directions.

Thanks for any assistance.
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post #5 of 50 Old 12-23-2015, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuart80112 View Post
So, from my minimal experience with things like Leaf blowers, I expect the cylinder or piston to be scored. I will pop off the exhaust soon and peek through the port. I'm expecting to see scratches.. will report what I see.
Unless the engine was run with no oil, I doubt you will see enough wear or scratching to lower the compression. Two cycle cylinders\pistons get scored usually from straight or incorrectly mixed fuel. Do you have the ability to do a leak down test on the engine? That would show where compression is escaping. Popping\stuttering could be caused by a sheared flywheel key, a bad valve adjustment and\or low compression.

Removing the muffler will not allow you to see the cylinder wall or piston on a four cycle motor.


Found this link for ordering or identifying parts-

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/mode...7/1507200.html

Toro 8/24 (38080) 1989
Toro 721-QZR (38743) 2015 (Hemi Predator Power)
Toro 421-E (38585) 2008 (New Owner)
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Last edited by Grunt; 12-23-2015 at 08:14 PM.
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post #6 of 50 Old 12-23-2015, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunt View Post
Unless the engine was run with no oil, I doubt you will see enough wear or scratching to lower the compression. Two cycle cylinders\pistons get scored usually from straight or incorrectly mixed fuel. Do you have the ability to do a leak down test on the engine? That would show where compression is escaping. Popping\stuttering could be caused by a sheared flywheel key, a bad valve adjustment and\or low compression.

Removing the muffler will not allow you to see the cylinder wall or piston on a four cycle motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueG5dcE0EPc

Found this link for ordering or identifying parts-

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/mode...7/1507200.html
Thank you so very very much for the video and for the hints of what and where to check. I will be watching this tear-down video very closely tonight to get the general feel for what to expect. I love that guy.. I did stumble into one or two other videos that he made bemoaning his "universal" skids that weren't "universal"... so he had to drill to get them on.

It will also answer one other question I had.. what's the difference between a Honda engine and a Clone.... I'll find out tonight.

I'll also be googling for "leak down tests" to figure out what that might be. From the sound of it I'm guessing it's a step by step diagnosis looking for vacuum/pressure leaks... but all will be revealed after some youtube research. Thanks so much for the hints and pointers and a direction to look in.

I think it's quite amusing that I thought for one minute that I'd see scoring through an exhaust port.. I bet you did too... but that's OK...in a couple of weeks or months I'll look back at this and smile.

This is real-time learning... for a total newbie! Off I go to Youtube!

Oh yes... one other thing... when the engine tried to start.. there was no clunking or knocking that I could hear. So I guess that means that no rods are banging around and no aluminum shrapnel is inside the engine. So hopefully that's a good sign.

Another thing... the compression test was 50lbs.. don't know if that tells you anything.

Last edited by unknown1; 12-23-2015 at 09:00 PM. Reason: clanking sounds
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post #7 of 50 Old 12-23-2015, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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Here is some other background history about this machine that was originally sitting in the "Beg for manuals thread". I may as well add it here since it may help to do remote diagnosis.

The machine was owned by a top-notch mechanic. He is too busy making money doing other things to care about this snowblower. He took the original engine off because it was "tired and under-powered". He did not have the patience to hunt for potentially obsolete parts for the Tecumseh so he just re-powered using an inexpensive Honda clone picked up on eBay. Time is money for him. In 2006 we had a major storm here in Denver and it's during that storm that the re-powered machine was laid to rest. I don't know if he stored it outside to keep his workshop clear for more pressing engagements.
I suspect that it was a combination of stress from the bad TRAC system and being overworked in that storm that hurt the clone. He did mention that the friction wheel had to be replaced and he's given me another spare. That seems consistent with the friction drive straining against a TRAC system that was starting to seize. It's now 9 years later and so there's an extra 9 years of rust on the TRAC system that I will need to attack. Until I do that.. no engine and no friction system can possibly move this machine. I cannot push it forwards and can barely drag it backwards.

Some pictures of the 2006 storm here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=2006...=1920&bih=1046
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post #8 of 50 Old 12-23-2015, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuart80112 View Post
It will also answer one other question I had.. what's the difference between a Honda engine and a Clone.... I'll find out tonight.

I'll also be googling for "leak down tests" to figure out what that might be. From the sound of it I'm guessing it's a step by step diagnosis looking for vacuum/pressure leaks... but all will be revealed after some youtube research. Thanks so much for the hints and pointers and a direction to look in.

I think it's quite amusing that I thought for one minute that I'd see scoring through an exhaust port.. I bet you did too... but that's OK...in a couple of weeks or months I'll look back at this and smile.

This is real-time learning... for a total newbie! Off I go to Youtube!


Another thing... the compression test was 50lbs.. don't know if that tells you anything.
There is nothing to be embarrassed about stuart, we all started out as newbies and "we all" learn something new from other forum members every day. Being that you have some two cycle experience, you know more than some "newbies" and will progress quickly.

Harbor freight sells a reasonably priced leak down tester and if you were going to pursue small engines as a part time job, I would say buy it. I made an adapter years ago out of an old spark plug and a male to male air fitting to do leak down tests. I broke out the porcelain and welded the air fitting to the hex portion. I then used my air compressor set to 30-40 psi and listened to where the air was escaping. it's not fancy, but it helped find low compression problems.

Toro 8/24 (38080) 1989
Toro 721-QZR (38743) 2015 (Hemi Predator Power)
Toro 421-E (38585) 2008 (New Owner)
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Last edited by Grunt; 01-10-2016 at 11:48 PM.
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post #9 of 50 Old 12-24-2015, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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So now I know what a leakdown test is.
I think I'll invest in a leak-down tester and a cheap pancake air compressor.

Here is a figure I made showing the four main types of leak and where they will show up on the outside. (I like pictures).
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...o3aDJyR2lSeHBn

...and a video showing how to do it...
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post #10 of 50 Old 12-24-2015, 03:42 PM
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I have never worked on a Honda clone and I'm not familiar with what the compression reading should be. I have worked on many Tecumseh and Briggs motors and I have seen a lot of them in the 50 to 70 psi compression range that ran great. I would wait until someone with clone experience to chime in. Your non starting issue may "not" be related to the compression reading at all and the valves, timing, carb or ignition may be at fault. If you plan on future repairs, I say buy the tools (you can never have to many).

Toro 8/24 (38080) 1989
Toro 721-QZR (38743) 2015 (Hemi Predator Power)
Toro 421-E (38585) 2008 (New Owner)
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
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