Single stage 'torque steer?' - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 01-05-2018, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 381
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 2
Thanks (Received): 12
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 44
Single stage 'torque steer?'

Hello,

Got the la bamba genesis snowfall here yesterday, about 6 inches of snow and it was fairly heavy. I was eager to try the Toro Powerclear 421 that I bought in the summer, my first foray with it was not successful because the carb was dirty and the choke lever was frozen. Got a new carb and also changed the paddles and scraper bar so it now is as new.

My question has to do with the machine not going in a straight line - if I turned the auger right the machine REALLY went off to the left. If I just left the auger in a straight ahead position it would go where I pushed but you can't really clean your driveway like that. Also, if I took smaller bites the machine would twist almost to a 45 degree angle with me fighting to push it straight.

End of driveway is wide so I took sideways swaths with the auger just aimed straight and that was fine, but starting in the middle of the drive and going back and forth throwing snow to one side was a workout just controlling the machine, and disappointingly so. And yes, I installed the paddles correctly. Other thing is the when the paddles make contact with the pavement it seems like the poor little machine will beat itself to death. Everything is tight and correct and the belt is good, nothing is bent or broken. It really looks like a new machine.

Is this normal for a single stage? If it is I may sell the thing and go back to my two stage, I just thought this might be better for those lighter snowfalls. I will say that for a 4 hp engine I was blown away by how far it threw stuff and heavy end of driveway with the wet stuff the plow threw there was absolutely no problem.

Thanks...
dhazelton is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 01-05-2018, 12:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lowell area, MA
Posts: 3,246
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 118
Thanks (Received): 277
Likes (Given): 358
Likes (Received): 633
When you say turn the auger left or right, do you mean the chute for the snow? I'm not quite following if it's not the chute.

My single-stage experience is limited, but mine were not difficult to keep going straight.

And the better one wasn't "violent", if you will, when the paddles were hitting the pavement. But I expect that the paddle design would impact how it felt with that. The cheaper machine was more jumpy when the paddles were hitting the pavement, as I recall.

Your experience doesn't seem consistent with how mine behaved.

Ariens 1024 Pro
Toro Power Clear 221QR
Toro Power Curve 1800
RedOctobyr is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 01-05-2018, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 381
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 2
Thanks (Received): 12
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 44
Meant the chute, yes. I googled the issue and that's where I found the phrase torque steer.
dhazelton is offline  
post #4 of 13 Old 01-05-2018, 01:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lowell area, MA
Posts: 3,246
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 118
Thanks (Received): 277
Likes (Given): 358
Likes (Received): 633
You mentioned pushing it straight. On my singles, I would raise the handles, which would make the paddles touch the ground, and it would pull itself forward. I don't remember needing to do a lot of pushing when using them that way, but it was a while ago, and I didn't have them for long.

Do you actually have to push yours? What about if not actually blowing snow, will it pull on "dry ground"?

Ariens 1024 Pro
Toro Power Clear 221QR
Toro Power Curve 1800
RedOctobyr is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 01-05-2018, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 381
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 2
Thanks (Received): 12
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 44
No, not a lot of my needing to actually push it to get forward momentum (except uphill), it just didn't want to go where I pointed it. Been watching youtube vids of similar machines and peoples techniques. It worked well for me if I had the chute fairly straight. If I turned it far to the side and adjusted it to blow straight down instead of up the force of the wet snow's mass going sideways was enough to steer the machine of course. On one video I watched when ever the guy put the paddles to the pavement there was a bit of banging going on. I think after using dual stages for so long I just have to adjust my technique and expectations.
dhazelton is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 01-05-2018, 02:35 PM
Senior Member
 
SayItAintSnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 242
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 20
Thanks (Received): 24
Likes (Given): 39
Likes (Received): 123
I've been using a single stage blower for light snowfalls only, for over two years, and I've never experienced this issue.

Now that you've clarified that it is the direction of the chute that is causing the pushing effect, it still seems surprising-- but makes more sense.

It almost sound's like your blower is responding to Newton's Third Law:
"For every action (force) in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction".

In this case, the force used to propel the snow to the left, causes an equal force pushing back against the chute to the right. This is a real thing of course...think of a jet engine-- particularly one with vectored thrust.

It's just hard to imagine it having this much effect, unless the machine is having trouble maintaining lateral traction or the design and placement of the wheels makes the machine inherently unstable to travel forward in a straight line.

I'm going to have to try this myself on my little Toro 2450. I'll angle the chute 90 degrees to one side then try to push the machine forward with only one hand right in the middle of the handle-bar and see if I can detect any torque from the thrust......
SayItAintSnow is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 01-05-2018, 02:41 PM
Senior Member
 
leonz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New York State
Posts: 1,141
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 72
Thanks (Received): 88
Likes (Given): 75
Likes (Received): 158
You may have to slow down a bit when clearing the snow as the paddles are going to follow the snow pack and ride along one side or the other as the paddle is gulping or attempting to eat a lot of material.

Just use it as it would stand at rest on the pavement with the wheels on the ground and the scraper bar just touching the surface of the pavement
then decide if you want to go back and scrape the pavement.

If you have any cooking spray or WD-40 or my favorite being fluid film to spray on everything that contacts snow that will help you a lot as you can just advance at a slow rate and throw it very far as the lube helps throw the material versus a dry paddle trying to push it up and out. It works very well with my snow pups and I do not have to push very hard to get good clearing down to the pavement.
leonz is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 01-05-2018, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 381
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 2
Thanks (Received): 12
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 44
I used a silicone spray in the chute and on the paddles, I do have Fluid Film in an undercoating gun and can try that next time.
dhazelton is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 01-05-2018, 06:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: nova scotia-south shore - ave annual snowfall 199.4 cm ( 78.5 ")
Posts: 2,314
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 73
Thanks (Received): 157
Likes (Given): 358
Likes (Received): 592
Garage
my toro 6053 tends to want to pull off to the side a bit in deeper snow. if memory serves me correct, it pulls/walks to the same side no matter which way the chute is pointed. i will pay closer attention if i get to use it this winter.

24 " 1967? Ariens Sno thro
28 " Ariens Sno Tek
Toro CCR ss
1966 Gravely LI Walk behind with dog eater

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nwcove is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 01-05-2018, 06:34 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Western NY
Posts: 41
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 1
I experience this all the time, I try to keep the chute turned not much farther than 45 degrees off center, this mitigates the "torque steer". Personally I'll only turn the chute hard over to either side at the end of my driveway so i don't throw snow in the road, and at my garage door, so i don't throw any in the garage... a little more work without a "quick chute", but works.

Currently waiting for snow...

2004 Yard Machines 8/24 For the big storms
2003 Toro Powerlite That waits in my trunk, should the need arise... shoveling... HA!... ya, don't think so.
2002 Toro 2450 Primary machine
1991/1992 Honda HS621 Backup for the 2450
TheFanMan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome