CC's vs HP... Apples and Oranges? - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 02-11-2018, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Dannoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 398
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 5
Thanks (Received): 18
Likes (Given): 42
Likes (Received): 119
CC's vs HP... Apples and Oranges?

In the old days, the snowblowers were rated by horsepower. Now it's CC's. What is the equal to a 10 HP machine in CC's or an 8 HP etc. Or are we comparing apples and oranges.
Dannoman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 02-11-2018, 08:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lowell area, MA
Posts: 3,246
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 118
Thanks (Received): 277
Likes (Given): 358
Likes (Received): 633
You have to make sure of whether you're talking OHV or flathead engines. Everything nowadays is OHV, but mentioned just in case you're comparing with an older flathead.

Tecumseh claims my 318cc OHV is 10hp, as one data point. Their ubiquitous HMSK80 318cc flathead was listed as 8hp.

Honda has moved away from hp ratings, I believe, but their 270cc OHV used to be rated as 9hp. The 340cc was 11hp, the 390cc was 13hp.

Ariens 1024 Pro
Toro Power Clear 221QR
Toro Power Curve 1800
RedOctobyr is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 02-11-2018, 08:38 PM
Senior Member
 
GustoGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,465
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 46
Thanks (Received): 67
Likes (Given): 57
Likes (Received): 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedOctobyr View Post
You have to make sure of whether you're talking OHV or flathead engines. Everything nowadays is OHV, but mentioned just in case you're comparing with an older flathead.

Tecumseh claims my 318cc OHV is 10hp, as one data point. Their ubiquitous HMSK80 318cc flathead was listed as 8hp.

Honda has moved away from hp ratings, I believe, but their 270cc OHV used to be rated as 9hp. The 340cc was 11hp, the 390cc was 13hp.
The newer OHV engines make more power per cc than do the older flat head engines too. I used to have a small flat head 5hp Tecumseh engine on my MTD 5/22 and while it got the job done it was never a powerhouse and it would bog big time when hitting the heavy snowplow packed snow at the end of the driveway when compare to the just 1.5hp more powerful on paper HF 212cc which was rated at 6.5hp. The new 212cc engine is a beast when compared to the old engine and with an impeller kit it actually throws snow 40 feet. Here is a video of it in action against 11 inches of snow.


GustoGuy is offline  
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Likes Jackmels liked this post
post #4 of 15 Old 02-11-2018, 09:35 PM
Senior Member
 
1132le's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: ma
Posts: 1,149
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 28
Thanks (Received): 81
Likes (Given): 60
Likes (Received): 186
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoGuy View Post
The newer OHV engines make more power per cc than do the older flat head engines too. I used to have a small flat head 5hp Tecumseh engine on my MTD 5/22 and while it got the job done it was never a powerhouse and it would bog big time when hitting the heavy snowplow packed snow at the end of the driveway when compare to the just 1.5hp more powerful on paper HF 212cc which was rated at 6.5hp. The new 212cc engine is a beast when compared to the old engine and with an impeller kit it actually throws snow 40 feet. Here is a video of it in action against 11 inches of snow.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONdFik8kges
Gusto ive watched your vid it throws great
the old 5 hp might have been 3.5 hp what was the rpms at 3100? most tecs very low ive owned a bunch
is the 212cc good yes does it make more stock then 6.5 hp and 8 ft lbs yes prolly
how much 10%? 20% maybe anything more No
can you mod it o kiĉk a$$ yes
does it make 10ft lbs stock or 11 o chance
my 8 hp fatty really around 6.8 hp
we all know the hp claims were bs
makes 12 plus ft lbs of torque
preditors run much higher rpms which spin the impeller much faster hence better throwing
my rust bucket st824 with impeller kit running 3725 rpm like all my tecs throws slop 30 feet and good snow 45 feet
impeller rpm is the gain not the magic hemi 212cc is the hemi nice but thats not the story honda showsthatwith there 1200 and 1350 rpm impeller speeds and less motor then ariensgx270
my 824 was 2800 rpm threw for crap uped by ear sounded like it was screaming checked it 3250 impeller rpm was barley above 1000 30 feet best throw
upped motor to 3725 rpm impeller 1090 rpm impeller kit 45 feet throws made it a beast
to say a 212cc stock has more power then a 8hp flatty is not right
i saw fearless with his vids he is running 4200 another 3900
impeller rpm makes the 212cc look much better
it still has trouble with lots of heavy wet bucket fulls compared to 318cc flatty with more ft lbs
displacement matters
before all you 212cc guys start writing all the ford vs chevy stuff
i like the 212cc ohv yes ohv makes more power
to say it makes more power then the 8hp flatty running right is disengenuios
3600 rpm plus or minus 150
ive run all mine there and they havent gone pop yet
maybe the will ive been doing it for yrs
clean slighty over full oil running right it screams
the 212cc is a killer deal for 100 bucks and you can mod it for cheap
a good running 8 hp flatty at 3700 rpm is as well
Gusto i was not saying you said it made more then an 8 hp flatty
ive read it from the 212cc guys on this forum
this was a general post
i would never try and use a 5 hp tec anything to clear snow its under powered
and thee are others will say 5 hp is plenty
living on the coast of mass needs every bit of 12 hp or better for
4 plus feet of hard pack eod crap likes big motors

Last edited by 1132le; 02-11-2018 at 10:06 PM.
1132le is online now  
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Likes gibbs296 liked this post
post #5 of 15 Old 02-11-2018, 10:41 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 71
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 7
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 13
I've heard there was some lawyer BS related to claimed HP and what they report to the EPA. Usually claimed HP is peak HP, like a car might claim 200hp @6200 rpm. The EPA version is some sort of complicated government mess involving averaging output at various engine speeds.

So bye bye standards, hello confusion.

Ariens Platinum 24 SHO EFI
zandor is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 02-11-2018, 11:34 PM
Moderator
 
Shryp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 4,159
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 1
Thanks (Received): 196
Likes (Given): 6
Likes (Received): 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by zandor View Post
I've heard there was some lawyer BS related to claimed HP and what they report to the EPA. Usually claimed HP is peak HP, like a car might claim 200hp @6200 rpm. The EPA version is some sort of complicated government mess involving averaging output at various engine speeds.

So bye bye standards, hello confusion.

About 8 years ago or so there was a huge class action lawsuit going around. Basically they were trying to get anyone and everyone that bought anything with an engine on it in the previous 10 years or so to join.

Please direct all snow blower questions to the forums and not to me with PMs.
Shryp is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 02-12-2018, 05:04 AM
Senior Member
 
tpenfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,040
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 48
Thanks (Received): 56
Likes (Given): 127
Likes (Received): 190
Garage
About the best correlation of old (HP) vs. new (cc) is that 32cc gets you about 1 HP. Not an absolute, but a decent approximation.

Similar to automobile engines, there can be changes in intake, exhaust, timing, etc that can get more or less power from a given size engine. I would imagine that rating engines in terms of displacement instead of power has made the the spec'ing of engines more absolute.

Regards, Ted
.
Current & Past Fleet:
2017 Husqvarna ST224 (SOLD)
2014 Troy-Bilt 2410 w/ Briggs & Stratton 305cc Engine
2003 Ariens ST824LE (SOLD)
1999 Toro PowerShift 824 w/ 318cc OHV Tecumseh Engine
1988 Toro 521 w/ 212cc Predator Engine
1985 Toro 3521 w/ 179cc Powermore Engine (SOLD)
tpenfield is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 02-12-2018, 06:03 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,619
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 4
Thanks (Received): 139
Likes (Given): 14
Likes (Received): 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpenfield View Post
Similar to automobile engines, there can be changes in intake, exhaust, timing, etc that can get more or less power from a given size engine. I would imagine that rating engines in terms of displacement instead of power has made the the spec'ing of engines more absolute.
I've got a lCT 291 SnowForce engine in the box that says right on the box it's a 10 HP engine.
Do I believe it - maybe, maybe not.
As has been said, with vehicle engines there are a number of factors that can affect HP. About the only way to know for sure is if you could get one mounted to a dyno and see what it produces at any given RPM.
Even then, manufacturers played games with the numbers. Some used readings right off the crankshaft. Others used it measured at the rear wheel. Others did measurements with no accessories yet other included them.
As has been said previously, engines of the same displacement using older vs. newer can have a wide range of HP values noted. None are all right nor are all wrong. It just depends on who's generating the numbers.

Last edited by HCBPH; 02-12-2018 at 08:05 AM.
HCBPH is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 02-12-2018, 06:19 PM
Senior Member
 
GustoGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,465
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 46
Thanks (Received): 67
Likes (Given): 57
Likes (Received): 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCBPH View Post
I've got a lCT 291 SnowForce engine in the box that says right on the box it's a 10 HP engine.
Do I believe it - maybe, maybe not.
As has been said, with vehicle engines there are a number of factors that can affect HP. About the only way to know for sure is if you could get one mounted to a dyno and see what it produces at any given RPM.
Even then, manufacturers played games with the numbers. Some used readings right off the crankshaft. Others used it measured at the rear wheel. Others did measurements with no accessories yet other included them.
As has been said previously, engines of the same displacement using older vs. newer can have a wide range of HP values noted. None are all right nor are all wrong. It just depends on who's generating the numbers.


NR Racing has tested stock Predator 212cc engines with the stock Honda style baffle mufflers at nearly 7.4HP right out of the box with out any modifications and with low restriction K&N conical style air filter with richer jetting were achieving 9hp with out any modification of the internal parts of the engine. Stage 1 kits from NR Racing found nearly 9.5 hp with out any internal modification of the engine. I hogged out the opening of my air box on my Predator 212cc and jetted the engine bigger and the bike became a wheelie machine. I needed to add 3 pieces of 3/8th inch thick plate steel one down low on the frame and 2 pieces over the number plate to prevent the bike from wheeling over when novice riders gun it because no matter how much I told them to lean forward they never would and the bike was downright dangerous to ride until I did this modification. Now it just goes forward instead of wheeling over.

Last edited by GustoGuy; 02-12-2018 at 07:46 PM.
GustoGuy is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 02-12-2018, 09:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: North Dallas area and UP of MI, average snowfall 202"
Posts: 702
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 16
Thanks (Received): 65
Likes (Given): 56
Likes (Received): 174
At what RPM? Horsepower specs are typically listed at rated speed (typically 3600) and anything else is not terribly meaningful in comparison.
tadawson is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome