Impeller speed on Honda and Yamaha faster than others? - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
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post #1 of 61 Old 03-31-2018, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
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Impeller speed on Honda and Yamaha faster than others?

There's been talk that the Honda and Yamaha impeller spins at a higher speed than others. That's the reason for their great throw. Is that true or are we guessing? Not important to this conversation but if it does spin faster, what speed? And what speed do the others spin at? Maybe we should consider changing the crank pulley to get a faster spin?

The only accurate way is to purchase and use a laser or photo tach, one that uses the reflective tape and gun, and shoot it. (No violence or threats intended, and no snowblowers were hurt or will be hurt doing this).

1986 Ariens ST522, 5hp, 22"
1995 Murray Craftsman 10hp, 29" w. 12" impeller
A 1983 Real John Deere 10hp, 32" w. 12" impeller, 16" auger, 20" high front, cast iron gear box, chains
Noma 9hp, 27" w. 12" impeller
Noma 5hp, 24" w. 12" impeller, 20" high front
Gravely Convertible, 12hp Kohler cast iron, 26" width, 600 lbs of cast iron & steel, 2 speed impeller, 4 ground speeds
Dynamark 8hp, 26", 12" impeller, for sale
Several other 5hp, 8hp, several 2 cycle, all for sale
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post #2 of 61 Old 03-31-2018, 05:23 PM
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I may update this as I get more info

(unfortunately Yamaha does not provide this spec on their Service Manuals , I'll see if I can eventually figure out an approximate number based on pulleys size and engine rpm)

Honda:

Track HS624/724 (10" impeller) 1447rpm
Wheel HS624/724 (12" impeller) 1365rpm
HS828/928/1132 (12" impeller) 1370rpm
HS1332 (12" impeller)

HSS928 (13.5" impeller) 1226rpm
HSS1332 (13.5" impeller) 1267rpm

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post #3 of 61 Old 03-31-2018, 05:27 PM
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High speed impeller + narrow/long chute = tight stream & long distance.
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post #4 of 61 Old 03-31-2018, 06:59 PM
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you can hear it in many utube vids, they sound like a skil-saw. or maybe im hearing things. lol

24 " 1967? Ariens Sno thro
28 " Ariens Sno Tek
Toro CCR ss
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post #5 of 61 Old 03-31-2018, 07:22 PM
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my st824 was 1020 or there abouts its 1090 now @3720 rpm since 2009 still waiting for the flathead to blow up
throws 40 feet with the impeller kit never clogs
the 1332 oh358 was [email protected] mine was [email protected] threw 45 feet plus with a kit
current 921037 28 plus 414cc stock rpm was 3576 impeller was 1040 or there abouts
raised engine to 3830 impeller rpm 1111 with impeller kit was throwing that ršin sošked march storms 45 feet plus
nrver tested a ariens higher then 1040 impeller speed stock rpms of 3600
the new sho are suppose to be 1083 town was 1050 stock i think he is over 1100 ẃith the gov mod
i might do te sho top pulley should net me 50 more impeller rpm atleast

IMPELLER RPM IS MOST IMPORTANT IMO
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post #6 of 61 Old 03-31-2018, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YSHSfan View Post
I may update this as I get more info

Honda:

Track HS624/724 (10" impeller) 1447rpm
Wheel HS624/724 (12" impeller) 1365rpm
HS828/928/1132 (12" impeller) 1370rpm
HS1332 (12" impeller)

HSS928 (13.5" impeller) 1226rpm
HSS1332 (13.5" impeller) 1267rpm

Interesting that Honda have reduced the impeller rpm as impeller diameter has increased. My Ariens has a 14" impeller and 1130 or so rpm, based upon digital infra red device readout with 2.75" crank pulley and 9" impeller pulley and 3,700 recommended engine rpm. Supported by this calculation: Pulley size and RPM

Impeller diameter is not a factor in the calculations to determine impeller rpm (based upon engine rpm and crank pulley dia and impeller pulley diameter). So if the Honda has the optimum impeller size to RPM, how would you calculate a 14" impeller optimum rpm on a Honda?

2015 Ariens Platinum 30 SHO - model 921040
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post #7 of 61 Old 03-31-2018, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Town View Post
Interesting that Honda have reduced the impeller rpm as impeller diameter has increased. My Ariens has a 14" impeller and 1130 or so rpm, based upon digital infra red device readout with 2.75" crank pulley and 9" impeller pulley and 3,700 recommended engine rpm. Supported by this calculation: Pulley size and RPM

Impeller diameter is not a factor in the calculations to determine impeller rpm (based upon engine rpm and crank pulley dia and impeller pulley diameter). So if the Honda has the optimum impeller size to RPM, how would you calculate a 14" impeller optimum rpm on a Honda?
What’s really important is the impeller tip speed and not the rpm. The larger the impeller the lower the needed rpms. That’s why Honda decreases rpms as the impeller diameter increases.
The ‘magic number’ is about 4500ft/min (I do not have the formula handy but I’ll try to post it tomorrow).
What Honda did to reduce the rpm on the 13.5 impeller was to increase the diameter of the impeller pulley while keeping the same engine pulley.
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post #8 of 61 Old 04-01-2018, 09:08 AM
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It seems like, across the board, 1000 - 1400 RPM is the range of auger speeds that we see. The diameter is an important factor as that determines the tip speed, as mentioned, which is the highest velocity the snow sees on its way out of the chute.

If you have a 12" auger going 1200 RPM then . . . (1200 rev/min x 12" x 3.1415926 (pi) ) / (60 seconds/min x 12"/ft) = 62.83 ft/sec (42.8 mph)

If you have a 14" auger going 1050 RPM then the same calculations give 64.1 ft/sec (43.7 mph)

In familiar terms, it seems like decent impeller tip speeds are in the 42 - 50 mph range, so you can assume that the snow is being ejected at a similar speed, but probably not quite that speed.

Comparing a couple of the Honda's mentioned:

Track HS624/724 (10" impeller) 1447rpm: 43 mph tip speed
HSS928 (13.5" impeller) 1226rpm: 49 mph tip speed

The slower/bigger impeller wins !

Regards, Ted
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post #9 of 61 Old 04-01-2018, 09:17 AM
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Lightbulb

I found the formula

impeller tip speed (ft/min) = impeller circumference (diameter in inches x 3.14 /12) x rpm


Honda HSS1332

impeller tip speed = (13.5 x 3.14/12) x 1283 = 4532 ft/min (throwing distance 56ft)

I'm almost positive that the 'D' with dual deflector throws a bit further.


HS828/928/1132

impeller tip speed = (12 x 3.14/12) x 1365 = 4286 ft/min (throwing distance 49.2 ft)




Honda HS6/724TA

impeller tip speed = (10 x 3.14/12) x 1447 = 3786 ft/min (throwing distance 39.4 ft)




As you may notice as the impeller tip speed decreases the throwing distance also decreases.

What really maters is the impeller tip speed (assuming you have close to similar chutes).
If we were to speed up the 10" impeller to ~ 1730rpm we can achieve 50-55ft trowing distance (the engine may lack power with heavy snow but we will get the desired distance).
But with the faster impeller also comes faster augers rotation which will likely be beneficial or work against it (I may be trying 1800rpm for the impeller on one of my HS824/924 projects)

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post #10 of 61 Old 04-01-2018, 09:30 AM
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It seems like we were typing at the same time . . .

Just adding the equivalent mph figures . . .

Honda HSS1332

impeller tip speed = (13.5 x 3.14/12) x 1283 = 4532 ft/min (throwing distance 56ft) . . . 51.55 mph tip speed

HS828/928/1132

impeller tip speed = (12 x 3.14/12) x 1365 = 4286 ft/min (throwing distance 49.2 ft) . . . 48.7 mph tip speed

Honda HS6/724TA

impeller tip speed = (10 x 3.14/12) x 1447 = 3786 ft/min (throwing distance 39.4 ft) . . . 43 mph tip speed

Regards, Ted
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