Here to ask if I can just throw some 75w-90 gear oil in the auger gearbox? If there's a specific one I should be using, please let me know asap, I would like to get it for this weekend. Snow is coming soon to the northeast, and my auger is completely out as I had to get the rust welded auger shaft out. I'll try to get some pics up.
Also I wanted to ask if I could use this water resistant marine grease as lubrication on the new auger shaft and other spots? My train of thought was that snow is wet and water resistance is good..
Set me straight.
Honda had an updated auger shaft years ago for that. It had a smaller diameter hole in it where that one broke at. They made the hole smaller to help prevent the break.
I remember installing the kits with the new shafts to prevent the breakage like you have there.
You can use 75-90 oil in the gearbox. Marine grade grease is good to use on the shaft to auger to help keep the augers from "Welding"/rusting fast to each other.
If you got the new auger shaft in a kit, it will be the updated shaft with the smaller pin hole in it, and the kit came with new seals and the blocks that attached the augers to the shafts where the shear bolts went through, and the pins that drove the mount block/adapter boss.
Amsoil 75/90 severe gear oil is the best synthetic oil to use, it is expensive oil though.
i went on boats and couldn't find the kit. just the main shaft for $71 and everything else is separate . do you happen toknow which model Honda on boats has the whole kit?
That is the early style gear box you have. The newer style box had the mounting tabs for the box support/hanger bracket that mounted to the auger housing and gearbox.
Hi All, thanks for the feedback! Here's the picture of the new auger shaft I have; ordered from Boats.net. Also, yes this snowblower was sold new in 1994... just 3 short years after I joined this world!
I'll stick with the gear oil I have already, I don't have a picture of it but it's pretty close to what's recommended.
wow, you're lucky you got that brokrn shaft outta the auger. those augers look pretty good. i usually use anti-seize grease on auger shafts to prevent rust/corrosion but may try marine grease in future to see if there is any difference.
Hi O.P.
That was back in the 90's we had a service bulletin that had the kit number for the shaft.
All the new shafts are now with the smaller hole in them.
It was an "Update Kit" back then. If we had a unit with a broken shaft they told us to use that kit and if we wanted to change any good shafts, we were supposed to use that kit.
I remembered it had the shaft, the gearbox seals, a gasket, the 2 smaller diameter pins with 2 cotter pins and 2 mount blocks.
I don't remember the price, that was a few years ago when we installed them. It was very rare to see that shaft broken unless somebody used the wrong "Shear bolt", then instead of the bolt breaking, it could have broke the shaft. The gears were pretty strong in those boxes then.
I will have to dig through a room full of,year/decades of old bulletins and paperwork to see if I can find the bulletin.
Thanks for the information and no rush, I'm going to run the blower this winter and next as is and maybe after that I can look at either upgrading or buying new. If you do find it, I know I (and others on this forum) would greatly appreciate any information.
I like the use of your houses' 4x4 to hold the auger so you could get that shaft out.
I'm working on a 828 as well and had to get a rusted Auger off - highly recommend getting a Tie rod separator from harbor freight pictured below. Worked perfectly for me. Just soak in PB or whatever your preference is, use a hammer to get this in-between the case and auger, then a couple taps and you should see movement. Did slight damage to the auger case cap, but took less than 10 minutes to get the auger free, and i'll just replace the cap for $5 (although it would still be fine).
Picture attached of when I got the auger free. Also a picture of the transmission case, one side of the auger shaft is cleaned up, the other still needs a little more work.
Anyway to answer your question, I did a craftsman last year and used marine grease on the auger shafts with no problem, its actually still on there now, I didn't need to add any this year. I know Lucas makes a "red and tacky" that has anti seize in it but I haven't tried it before.
I only have a C-clamp, no vise, so I had to make it work! I don't think the tie rod separator would have worked for my situation since the auger shaft was snapped at the shear bolt hole, but I will keep that in mind in the future if it happens to me.
Good to hear on the marine grease, I Will proceed forward with that.
Thank you for sharing the pictures, it's always good to see how people get stuck parts unstuck! :smile2:
Ahhh the dreaded broken shaft, even though you can get killer deals here NE on the hondas with broken shafts its a pain every time trying to fix the machine.
Since the shaft needs to be replaced I usually use oxy-acetylene to free it up, this because the seals need to be replaced anyway.
If the shaft is still in tact and needs to be freed from the augers then I use MAP gas and kroil to free up the augers, usually work with a lot of force and patience.
For replacement gear oil I use synthetic Mobil 1.
If I am working with older style driveshafts then I notch the ends that go inside the augers and impeller, those slight notches usually hold plenty of anti-seize within to avoid this from happening again. A good amount of anti-seize has never hurt anyone.
The shown auger in OPs picture also seem to be kinked/bend due to the impact, I'd use some map gas or oxy-acytelene to bend it back into shape.
I'll be using marine grease instead of anti-seize, but one of the other posts said they did not have seizing with that, either.
Do you mean my picture, or orangputeh's pic?
I'll try to find a picture of the normal auger and then use my map gas to try to bend back if I can.
Got to say, I appreciate all of the information and pictures shared here; I wish I had the foresight to make small videos about this as I was going through.. no one needs to hear me swearing, though. I may make a quick video on my re-assembly process once the parts get here on Monday.
If you or anyone else has tips on re-assembly, I'd appreciate if you shared!
Use a "Split point" bit. It cuts in much better and faster than a standard point bit. Make sure you oil it to help keep it cool and run it at a lower speed like others posted.
If you run it too fast, you will burn the bit out in a hurry and wont cut/drill properly.
I would still like to know how to get the drive and main shafts out of my auger gearbox. they are in tight not like donyboy's video when they practically fell out.
There is 1 big black shear bolt that holds the impeller paddle to the drive shaft. Remove that bolt and as long as the impeller in not frozen to the drive shaft that connects it to the drive pulley, it should just pull out after you unbolt the side bearings on the auger shafts to the housing. Then you can remove the whole assembly as one piece.
That big black shear bolt is one of the shear bolts they give you in the tool kit as a spare besides the smaller silver bolts and nuts for the augers themselves that are the ones that usually break.
That big black shear bolt is for the impeller paddle.
For my auger shaft; someone had a stronger bolt in the auger/auger shaft than necessary and must have driven it into a tree, as they bent the auger and sheared the shaft.
Then, just put another strong bolt in and continued using it with it sheared.
No grease on the auger shaft and ta-da, it rust welded on both sides.
okay, i am pretty sure have to remove the oil seal to remove the clip. went and looked at the manual , duh....should have done that in the first place.
@orangputeh
Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, I was sealing up the garage so it's not so cold in there this winter.
Here's the parts diagram for my HS828 auger gearbox, that should help. My serial is SZAK2013xxx (boats.net has requirements to know your serial when searching for parts)
Yes, you have to get the oil seal out first. I had to drill mine out as I didn't have any hooks. However there's space to fit a small hook in next to the shaft if you have those. It will still take some force.
I don't know why that parts diagram uploaded without part numbers... Here's attempt 2 with the page.
Donnyboys video shows a gearbox that is already part way apart, he is basically showing how to put it back together.
It would be good if he could show a complete gear box rebuild from start to finish to show people how to get the one grease seal out easier to get to the bearing retainer C clip so the shaft can be removed.
There are tricks to remove the oil seal with a self tapping screw and drilling it, install the screw and use that to pull out the seal.
Another way is to pressurize the box with air to try and blow out the seal, but be careful, you could have an oil mess. Another way is to pump the box full of grease and force it out hydraulically.
Then you have to clean out all of the grease.
I have seen people seal up the tiny drill hole in the oil seal with RTV sealer or JB Weld and it worked, but you are better off with installing a new seal if you have one and didn't damage the seal removing it.
It's funny some of the problems you run into that has fairly simple solutions and you think "why didn't I think of that?"
There are some things that puzzled the heck out of me a couple years ago that are so easy now I have to laugh at my old ignorant self. Now when someone else has that problem and I show them how to do that they think I'm some kind of magic man. That's funny.if only they knew.......
I can't get the right hand side bearing in far enough for the clip to go in. I do not have a vise and the only pole I have is the rod for my roof rake so I can't hammer on that too hard.
Any tips on what I can pick up to help me get that in? I think I'm only about a sixteenth to an eighth away from the gap.
Watched dony's part 2 video and I wish it was as easy as he made it look.
I can't get the right hand side bearing in far enough for the clip to go in. I do not have a vise and the only pole I have is the rod for my roof rake so I can't hammer on that too hard.
Any tips on what I can pick up to help me get that in? I think I'm only about a sixteenth to an eighth away from the gap.
I never feel comfortable beating on a bearing to seat it. I have several mechanical and hydraulic presses for that process. If you have a car jack, you can usually cobble up a press by placing the bearing and casing between the jack and a flat surface on the underside of a car. With the auger gear case, I'd use a piece of PVC pipe the diameter of the outer race on top, then the bearing, then the casing with a flat plate inserted through the front to provide a bearing surface, then another, smaller piece of PVC pipe coming up through the opposite side of the case against the plate, and finally the jack on the bottom.
Sometimes you can use a piece of PVC pipe. You can usually get that at a hardware store and its not too expensive. It might work if you don't have to hammer it in too hard.
Another thing to check for is if you replaced a bearing, make sure it is the same width as the one you just removed.
I have seen bearings that were off by a little bit, that usually comes from a different bearing manufacturer. Also temperature change can cause dimensions to change a little bit but that shouldn't make enough of a difference.
Check to make sure there is nothing obstructing the path of the bearing where it sets into the case that would block it from going in far enough to get the clip on, like a tiny burr in the metal. And if you replaced an oil seal, check the thickness of that to make sure it is not too thick and then you will crush it a bit to install the bearing, that can cause an interference problem with thickness.
I would try a piece of PVC pipe though, you can grind it down easier to make it fit if you have to, a lot easier than grinding a piece of metal, or you can go and buy a bearing driver tool set, but not all of those fit properly.
Honda had special tools for a lot of their products that the dealerships had to buy, and they were not cheap so we made some of our own with the help of our friends at the machine shop.
I never feel comfortable beating on a bearing to seat it. I have several mechanical and hydraulic presses for that process. If you have a car jack, you can usually cobble up a press by placing the bearing and casing between the jack and a flat surface on the underside of a car. With the auger gear case, I'd use a piece of PVC pipe the diameter of the outer race on top, then the bearing, then the casing with a flat plate inserted through the front to provide a bearing surface, then another, smaller piece of PVC pipe coming up through the opposite side of the case against the plate, and finally the jack on the bottom.
Good idea Tabora.
Those bearings usually install pretty easy and just have to be tapped lightly into place, they are not a tight interference fit normally.
If he had a small toaster oven he could heat up the case to make it go in easier, and chill the bearing in the freezer for a little while, then it should go in real smoothly.
I may try taking it all apart including removing the shaft again to try to re-seat everything. I put a thin film of grease on outside of bearing and sanded the inside of the seat. I used some 220 grit sandpaper.
Used the two old bearings to try to hammer down and get the new one to seat.
I'll try to start from the beginning again and push out the oil seal and bearing from the left side. Donyboy73 used a 31/32 socket to seat that, which I'm fine picking up at the store, its just that I don't have a vise to stick it in, and when I hammer against my concrete floor.. The floor gives way, so I've got to find a better solution.
I may have an old brake rotor sitting around that I could use to hammer against.
Thanks for the tips and if you have any ideas on what size pvc I should get, please let me know. I guess I could stop at home to grab one of the bearings before popping over to the store.
My issue is when trying to get the second bearing in, the shaft has to be in and that makes it super awkward for separating from the floor.
Will keep you updated. May not be able to get as deep into it tonight due to previous plans.
Check your oil seal thickness just in case the seal is thicker than the old one. If you have the old seal, use a micrometer to measure the thickness and compare it to the new seal just in case it might be thicker, also measure the old and new bearings, just in case.
If the oil seal is thicker, that could be your problem with getting the clearance to the groove for the retainer clip.
I wonder if the bearing may have been cocked a little bit when you tried to drive it into the case and that may have deformed the metal a little bit to cause some of the problems you are having, a possibility.
If that would be the cause, then you would have to take it to a machine shop and have it milled out a little bit to get the clearance back and get the bearing and seal in better.
I'd do the freezer and gently warm the case with a hair dryer, that should open that hole up a little and make the bearing a little smaller. If you can't get the bearing out then pick up a can of CRC Freeze Off (white and blue can and doesn't smell too bad either!) and heat up the case with the hair dryer or heck even a Mr Buddy style heater would work great as long as you watch the temp of the case. Spray the freeze off on the bearing and tap it in quickly before it heats up again.
I'm wondering if the gear case is damaged or the new bearings and oil seals are a little bit thicker than the original ones that were removed. You'd have to get them measured with a micrometer and compare the two of them just in case one is thicker than the other.
Another possibility is if the case was squeezed together if it was mounted in a vise and that could cause a problem by warping the case inwards if it was squeezed too much, causing it to flex and not crack and break.
I stopped by my cousin's house real quick yesterday as he has more tools.
It's super easy to disassemble now as I've done it so much now. Got the oil seal completely seated; still the same issue with the bearings.
Looking at potentially reusing the old bearings.
All 4 bearings (old and new sets) for the auger shaft are in the freezer. Tonight I will try to heat the case and see if the bearings drop in or if they are stuck again.
I checked the oil seal thickness and they were the same. Same for the bearings.
If no dice on this working tonight, it looks like I may ask family for a snowblower that has been sitting for a few years (not that I want another project and another snowblower to store...) as an alternative.
I'm wondering if the gear case is damaged or the new bearings and oil seals are a little bit thicker than the original ones that were removed. You'd have to get them measured with a micrometer and compare the two of them just in case one is thicker than the other.
Another possibility is if the case was squeezed together if it was mounted in a vise and that could cause a problem by warping the case inwards if it was squeezed too much, causing it to flex and not crack and break.
Didn't you say the old bearings were really tight too? I suppose you can check to see if there's any wobble and slop in the old ones. I'd hold the inner race and then push axially (finger in the bearing hole and push on the top race along the length of the finger, basically a side to side push) on the outer race and see if there's any movement. Also do the same with the new ones and compare outcomes. I do not think there should be any movement. You can also do an up and down check by putting a finger in the hole (no not that one! j/k) and basically try squeezing the outer race into the inner race and alternate pushing on the other side quickly to see if you can determine any wear that way.
Also look at the balls... on the bearing and look for any pitting or anything which would determine if there was ever damage or rust pitted them after sitting for a while.
If they are tight and have nice smooth balls (gah!!) and if they fit back into the housing easier than the new ones then I'd just reuse them and toss the new ones back in the box and return them or hold onto them for another summer project.
If you have access to a micrometer (very very precise measuring device not to be confused with a less accurate caliper, though a caliper will work in a pinch if you're careful) then you can measure the O.D. of both old and new to determine if the diameters are exactly the same.
Just an update to let you all know I had no luck with the frozen bearings and heated case.
This weekend is my next opportunity to get it fixed - will reach out to @tabora.
I used the gear oil as lubricant and one slid in (left side) but kept popping out when I would pull shaft out.
Right side one I heated case and then dropped the bearing in, but it wouldn't budge any further in.
Here's hoping we get no snow on Sunday, just rain!
The wife is getting nervous about it not fixed yet..
Just an update to let you all know I had no luck with the frozen bearings and heated case.
This weekend is my next opportunity to get it fixed - will reach out to tabora.
I used the gear oil as lubricant and one slid in (left side) but kept popping out when I would pull shaft out.
Right side one I heated case and then dropped the bearing in, but it wouldn't budge any further in.
Here's hoping we get no snow on Sunday, just rain!
The wife is getting nervous about it not fixed yet..
Wow, I'd say that is the wrong shaft there. But it looks like that's what is called for by the part number listings. Honda doesn't have the "Old" number listings available anymore unless you have the old microfiche.
The new part number Tabora listed in his post also fits the 1332 models besides the smaller models, so you would think it is a heavier shaft.
He has the "Early" style case with the "Old" style shaft originally.
Honda came out with an updated shaft that came as a kit back in the 90's. The kit came with all kinds of parts besides just the shaft. It had bearings, seals, pins, cotter pins, gasket and the lock bolt boss.
I don't think those kits are available anymore. Honda probably figures there aren't enough of the older 828 and 624 models left anymore that needed the kit, so Honda did away with them.
Honda also changed the gearbox from back then. He has the "Old" style gearbox without the bolt tabs for the gearbox support bracket. The "New" style gearbox has the bolt tabs for that bracket, so the gearbox is a little bit different and it looks like it was designed heavier, so that could have been the problem right there. Honda doesn't have the "Old Style" gearboxes anymore either.
His 828 is around 25 years old by now.
Honda used to be very good with their parts for older machines, but that all stopped after Mr Honda died, and they no longer kept New Old Stock parts in their warehouses anymore because it cost money to store all of the old parts. Honda did that with power equipment and motorcycle parts around 15 years ago.
Sorry for the delay in posting - wanted to get it all back together, and test it out.
Attached is the picture of the snap ring that easily seated after @tabora nicely ground down the splines (sneaky over the shoulder picture attached as well). Make sure you check that on yours, @orangputeh.
Got it all back together and tested, engine runs great (with the new LED lights I wired in) but now I have a new problem. I will make a new thread for that.
To anyone reading this thread down the road, if you are fortunate enough to have the old shaft, double check the measurements of the splines before you go beating on them like I did.
To everyone that replied in helping me, thank you so much.
I'll conclude this thread and start up a new one for the newest issue as it does not pertain to the auger gearbox. This issue is solved.
Used my middle-size lathe (a 44142 combo lathe/milling machine/drill press from Harbor Freight about 20 years ago) and just turned off the ends of the splines as shown in post number 83. That composite picture shows the old shaft, too. It was sheared at the pin hole.
I also have a Unimat miniature combo lathe/milling machine for very small work that I inherited and a large Jet lathe and Bridgeport milling machine that I purchased from Konica Minolta when the photo labs shut down in 2006, but the big guys are overkill for a little job like this.
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