First off, I would like to Thank the Members and Staff of SBF who have answered many questions from me over the last Two plus years about Honda SB in general and the HS621 and HS520AS specifically. The breath of knowledge and expereience here is impressive. Robert from Honda is also an invaluable resource to SBF. I hope this thread will serve as a resource for those who are considering going to Canada to get a machine as I did, but are hesitant to do so due to the conflicting information out there and whether it is legal, or feasible to do so. This story proves it is both Legal and possible to do so.
When I joined this forum I had not even heard of the HS621, but based on the numerous repeated recomendations from the folks here, it seemed that was the way for me to go. I wanted the most reliable and powerful Single Stage machine that I could lift into the back of my SUV reptitively thorughout the day, by myself for use in clearing the snow from my rental properties in N.Y.C.. Here is my story.
I switched machines from a 208CC MTD Gold Single Stage to a Honda HS520AS. The MTD had a great 208CC engine, but the bucket was too short in height and only rated for about 9-10" height snow falls. In late 2012 I gave the MTD to my 83 Y.O. Father in Law whose less than one year old 28" Ariens Snow Tek was submerged in Hurricane Sandy.
While I liked the quality of Honda products and I own two Honda EU2000i Generators that I ran in tandem and used for over 30 days with no power during and after Hurricane Sandy, I bought a 2014 HS520AS based on Honda's reputation and my expereince with the Honda Generators. What I found was that the 520 had less power than the 208 MTD Gold and the bigger issue was handle vibrated very badly so after a period of time using the machine, you would want to take a break even while wearing thick insulated work gloves.
I took the 520 into a Honda Dealer, Ace Tool Repair 2201 Wantagh Ave in Wantagh, N.Y. in March of 2015, who sent the machine out for Warranty Service. I got a call in Oct. of 2015 that the machine was ready for pick up. When I went in to pick up the machine I was informed that without my consent the oil and spark plug were changed and the bill due was $103.20, nor did they disclose up front that the machine would be sent out, or that it would take 7 months to get it back. I never leave the gas in it for the entire off season. When I asked about whether the vibration issue, the very reason I brought the machine in was resolved, I was told they did not know.
It did not snow until January 2016 when we got a 30" dumping. At that point, it became obvious there was no change in the vibration issue. It was then that I was again motivated to find a new (impossible to find), or as lightly used as possible HS621 in the U.S..
With the help of the Members and Staff here on SBF I looked into many ads from Craigslist and Ebay, almost all of which were not anywhere near me. The one that was near me, left the ad up for a long time but did not respond to emails or phone calls. I noticed that on C.L. that many Sellers will list an item, but are not serious about selling or are too busy to respond to enquires. All the machines I looked at ads for seemed old, tired and well worn, except for one machine in New Jersey that the Seller decided to hold onto.
So when I found out recently that the HS621 model sold in Canada had been discontinued, I realized I had better move quickly for the last call on the new 621's available in North America. I went to the Honda of Canada Motor Sports web site and found a Dealer Locator/great map feature on their site. So, I started calling the Dealers located in Ontario, which is closest to where I live in New York. I called about 12 Dealers, 10 had none in stock and had not had any this season since they were discontunued in the Fall of 2014. So, at that point I realized I am late to the game and need to find a Dealer with old in stock inventory. The quest to snag one of the last remaining Canadian 621's went into high gear, it was last call for anyone who really wanted one.
I found one Dealer who was much further in Northern Ontario, but had two new machines in stock. I tried to get them to ship one, but they would not, then I said I would take both machines, if they would ship them, but they still did not want to spend the time and effort to deal with Customs, an Expeditor and shipping issues. I did point out that I would pay for the Expediter and shipping fees and they still would not ship.
I could not find any other Dealers who had any in stock other than the closest Honda Dealer 16 miles North of the New York border who had one HS621CS left in stock the "Floor / Demo" model manufactured in 2009 and they too would not ship it to me.They did have the Owner's manual, Spark Plug removal tool and keys for it, so I decided that was my best option and to commit to making the trip to get it. I did ask if there were any upgrades to the 621 between 2009 and the last units to roll off the line in 2014 and was told no changes.
The trip was over 400 miles one way and 7 + hours of driving from my home on Long Island to pick it up. I got a friend to go along with me and we would Ski for one day on the way home to break up the journey.
I called about 12 Telephone numbers for U.S. Customs and Border Protection before leaving and found that many of the numbers they list on their web site were disconnected, others just rang and no one answered them, others would be answered but the Officer did not know if it was legal to import a used Snow Blower into the U.S. and gave me another number to call only to find they too did not know. Finally, I dialed one number where the Officer said it was no issue and no Duty fee would be due for it and then hung up on me, before I could ask any further questions.
Upon arriving at the Canadian Customs check point on the other side of the St. Lawrence River from Ogdenburg, N.Y. the Customs Officer had a hard time beleiving that the nature of our trip was to pick up a used snow blower in Canada. A theme that would repeat itself. The Bridge toll for this very long bridge was $2.75 each way and it is not part of the E-Z Pass system.
It was only 16 miles from the Border to the Honda Dealer, easy enough.
The Bill of Sale paperwork was filled out in advance. There is a 13% G.S.T. (Goods & Services Tax) that is required. I was told by the Honda Dealer that I could fill out a form at the U.S. Customs to get that back, but that was not the case. U.S. Customs is not the one who collects the G.S.T., that is a Canadian Tax collected. I will email the Dealership Manager that I was dealing with and see if she can send me the forms to recover that tax. I am not optimistic that GST will be refunded to me, we will see.
I started the machine at the Dealer, it started with no issues and ran smoothly without handle vibration. I then asked them to remove the gas for transport, which they did.
The paperwork was quickly completed and we were on our way back to the U.S.. We did make a stop at the Border at a Canadian Duty Free shop and found that even though Pres. Obama is going to Cuba this week, we could not purchase Cuban Cigars to bring back with us.
When we pulled into U.S. Customs, then the interogation would begin. The Customs Officer was having a hard time beleiving that we drove from Long Island to Canada to pick up a used Snow Blower and wanted to know what else we bought while we were there, answer: nothing, how long were we in Canada answer: less than 2 hours, why couldn't I find a snow blower in the U.S., Answer: the history on the North American sales and ceaseing of manufacture of the HS621. What was I going to use this Snow Blower for, answer: Snow removal. By this point, I am convinced he thought I was a Moron. When he asked if I would use this machine for work I said yes, at that point he kept our Passports and we were directed to come inside and pay a Customs Duty fee of $13.05. If you are using the machine for personal use, there would be no Duty fee due. I paid the fee and we were on out way to Gore Mtn. Ski area about 3 1/2 hours away. We skied the next day for about 2 1/2 hours conditions were lousy, temp went up to 55F and we decided to head home. A half hour after we left it started to rain there. From there it was another 6 hours driving to get home.
I hope in some way this story helps someone who is considering this trip. There really is no Legal reason not to do it. If anyone has any questions about this process, I invite you to chime in here, or contact me privately down the road since I think this topic will be revisited for some years to come. The HS621CS is now living in my garage next to my HS520AS. :wavetowel2: I would like to Thank the many Members here and Staff who made this story possible.
Here is a photo of the HSS724A with Hydrostatic drive. There were 1-2 other models, but I am at the limit for posting photos.
When I joined this forum I had not even heard of the HS621, but based on the numerous repeated recomendations from the folks here, it seemed that was the way for me to go. I wanted the most reliable and powerful Single Stage machine that I could lift into the back of my SUV reptitively thorughout the day, by myself for use in clearing the snow from my rental properties in N.Y.C.. Here is my story.
I switched machines from a 208CC MTD Gold Single Stage to a Honda HS520AS. The MTD had a great 208CC engine, but the bucket was too short in height and only rated for about 9-10" height snow falls. In late 2012 I gave the MTD to my 83 Y.O. Father in Law whose less than one year old 28" Ariens Snow Tek was submerged in Hurricane Sandy.
While I liked the quality of Honda products and I own two Honda EU2000i Generators that I ran in tandem and used for over 30 days with no power during and after Hurricane Sandy, I bought a 2014 HS520AS based on Honda's reputation and my expereince with the Honda Generators. What I found was that the 520 had less power than the 208 MTD Gold and the bigger issue was handle vibrated very badly so after a period of time using the machine, you would want to take a break even while wearing thick insulated work gloves.
I took the 520 into a Honda Dealer, Ace Tool Repair 2201 Wantagh Ave in Wantagh, N.Y. in March of 2015, who sent the machine out for Warranty Service. I got a call in Oct. of 2015 that the machine was ready for pick up. When I went in to pick up the machine I was informed that without my consent the oil and spark plug were changed and the bill due was $103.20, nor did they disclose up front that the machine would be sent out, or that it would take 7 months to get it back. I never leave the gas in it for the entire off season. When I asked about whether the vibration issue, the very reason I brought the machine in was resolved, I was told they did not know.
It did not snow until January 2016 when we got a 30" dumping. At that point, it became obvious there was no change in the vibration issue. It was then that I was again motivated to find a new (impossible to find), or as lightly used as possible HS621 in the U.S..
With the help of the Members and Staff here on SBF I looked into many ads from Craigslist and Ebay, almost all of which were not anywhere near me. The one that was near me, left the ad up for a long time but did not respond to emails or phone calls. I noticed that on C.L. that many Sellers will list an item, but are not serious about selling or are too busy to respond to enquires. All the machines I looked at ads for seemed old, tired and well worn, except for one machine in New Jersey that the Seller decided to hold onto.
So when I found out recently that the HS621 model sold in Canada had been discontinued, I realized I had better move quickly for the last call on the new 621's available in North America. I went to the Honda of Canada Motor Sports web site and found a Dealer Locator/great map feature on their site. So, I started calling the Dealers located in Ontario, which is closest to where I live in New York. I called about 12 Dealers, 10 had none in stock and had not had any this season since they were discontunued in the Fall of 2014. So, at that point I realized I am late to the game and need to find a Dealer with old in stock inventory. The quest to snag one of the last remaining Canadian 621's went into high gear, it was last call for anyone who really wanted one.
I found one Dealer who was much further in Northern Ontario, but had two new machines in stock. I tried to get them to ship one, but they would not, then I said I would take both machines, if they would ship them, but they still did not want to spend the time and effort to deal with Customs, an Expeditor and shipping issues. I did point out that I would pay for the Expediter and shipping fees and they still would not ship.
I could not find any other Dealers who had any in stock other than the closest Honda Dealer 16 miles North of the New York border who had one HS621CS left in stock the "Floor / Demo" model manufactured in 2009 and they too would not ship it to me.They did have the Owner's manual, Spark Plug removal tool and keys for it, so I decided that was my best option and to commit to making the trip to get it. I did ask if there were any upgrades to the 621 between 2009 and the last units to roll off the line in 2014 and was told no changes.
The trip was over 400 miles one way and 7 + hours of driving from my home on Long Island to pick it up. I got a friend to go along with me and we would Ski for one day on the way home to break up the journey.
I called about 12 Telephone numbers for U.S. Customs and Border Protection before leaving and found that many of the numbers they list on their web site were disconnected, others just rang and no one answered them, others would be answered but the Officer did not know if it was legal to import a used Snow Blower into the U.S. and gave me another number to call only to find they too did not know. Finally, I dialed one number where the Officer said it was no issue and no Duty fee would be due for it and then hung up on me, before I could ask any further questions.
Upon arriving at the Canadian Customs check point on the other side of the St. Lawrence River from Ogdenburg, N.Y. the Customs Officer had a hard time beleiving that the nature of our trip was to pick up a used snow blower in Canada. A theme that would repeat itself. The Bridge toll for this very long bridge was $2.75 each way and it is not part of the E-Z Pass system.
It was only 16 miles from the Border to the Honda Dealer, easy enough.
The Bill of Sale paperwork was filled out in advance. There is a 13% G.S.T. (Goods & Services Tax) that is required. I was told by the Honda Dealer that I could fill out a form at the U.S. Customs to get that back, but that was not the case. U.S. Customs is not the one who collects the G.S.T., that is a Canadian Tax collected. I will email the Dealership Manager that I was dealing with and see if she can send me the forms to recover that tax. I am not optimistic that GST will be refunded to me, we will see.
I started the machine at the Dealer, it started with no issues and ran smoothly without handle vibration. I then asked them to remove the gas for transport, which they did.
The paperwork was quickly completed and we were on our way back to the U.S.. We did make a stop at the Border at a Canadian Duty Free shop and found that even though Pres. Obama is going to Cuba this week, we could not purchase Cuban Cigars to bring back with us.
When we pulled into U.S. Customs, then the interogation would begin. The Customs Officer was having a hard time beleiving that we drove from Long Island to Canada to pick up a used Snow Blower and wanted to know what else we bought while we were there, answer: nothing, how long were we in Canada answer: less than 2 hours, why couldn't I find a snow blower in the U.S., Answer: the history on the North American sales and ceaseing of manufacture of the HS621. What was I going to use this Snow Blower for, answer: Snow removal. By this point, I am convinced he thought I was a Moron. When he asked if I would use this machine for work I said yes, at that point he kept our Passports and we were directed to come inside and pay a Customs Duty fee of $13.05. If you are using the machine for personal use, there would be no Duty fee due. I paid the fee and we were on out way to Gore Mtn. Ski area about 3 1/2 hours away. We skied the next day for about 2 1/2 hours conditions were lousy, temp went up to 55F and we decided to head home. A half hour after we left it started to rain there. From there it was another 6 hours driving to get home.
I hope in some way this story helps someone who is considering this trip. There really is no Legal reason not to do it. If anyone has any questions about this process, I invite you to chime in here, or contact me privately down the road since I think this topic will be revisited for some years to come. The HS621CS is now living in my garage next to my HS520AS. :wavetowel2: I would like to Thank the many Members here and Staff who made this story possible.
Here is a photo of the HSS724A with Hydrostatic drive. There were 1-2 other models, but I am at the limit for posting photos.