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ST227P Running Blog

38K views 233 replies 25 participants last post by  dr bob 
#1 · (Edited)
Coming into the third snow season for our no-longer-new ST227P, I decided to give it its own thread. Previously, info was piggybacked on the http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/husqvarna-snowblowers/71922-new-st-227p-some-questions-some-issues.html here.

Picking up where we left off last spring with storage prep, I decided yesterday to pull the cover off, blow the dust off and do the pre-season ritual stuff to it. Temps in the low 70's, seemed a perfect time to do everything, vs. on a frozen morning with inches of snow accumulating.

-- Retreated all the painted parts with paint sealant. I use a pro equivalent of Mequiars NXT 2.0 sealant, same stuff that protects the paint on the cars. It may help some with abrasion damage, but for sure it helps keep snow slush ice fro sticking. I do the impellers too.

-- Topped up the air in the tires. I'd max'd the pressure at 20 PSI in the spring, but it had drifted down to about 10 PSI over the summer. Between uses the machine sits on a little 4-wheel mover's dolly so the tires didn't "go flat" -- there's no weight on them. the dolly, incidentally, makes moving it around a LOT easier, keeps the scraper and shoes off the floor (no rust from sitting in water...), and was <$10 at the neighborhood Harbor Freight store.

-- Removed the spark plug (was finger tight) and cycled the engine a few times with the pull starter cord. This clears any remaining ATF and fogging oil from the cylinder. Plug is back in and tight, with teh wire reconnected.

-- Fill the tank with fresh treated fuel. the LCT manual for the engine recommends running the system out of fuel (fuel valve off) after each use. With treated fuel they say it's OK to leave fuel in the carburetor. Turns out that Sta-Bil is cheap enough to just dose the gas can at fill-up and never worry about it.

-- Check the oil level. It was just filled with fresh oil prior to storage in the spring, so this is a formality. Double-cautious, just in case the oil was stolen from it over the summer. Or I forgot to refill. Cheap and easy insurance. Oil level is good.

-- Drum roll... How quickly will it start? Last fall during the same effort, it started on the soft pull when I was trying to roll it up towards compression. This year it didn't. It actually took a full starting pull to bring it to life this time. Either the engine or the owner must be getting tired with age or something. Note that I've never considered using the electric-start capability. It starts so easily with the rope, why bother getting out and recoiling an extension cord for the electric start? I guess it works...

-- Let it run and warm up some, listening for funny noises, looking for leaks. None noted, so closed teh fuel shut-off, let the engine run to stall. Let it cool off, rechecked the oil level out of habit, rolled it onto its dolly, then rolled it all back to it's spot by the workbay door. Cover is folded and stored away.

I'm trying to decide if I should treat myself to a matching-orange balaclava this year. Neoprene or knit? Toughest decision so far.

Next duty: clean and wax the snow shovels.
 
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#31 ·
Finally some decent snow here in Central Oregon. I was able to do the driveway in 45 minutes (used to take me 3+hours, with my shovel buddy (wife)). 6 inches, dry and maybe the only time I will use it this season. LOL. Forecast is for light snow but no future storms in the forecast. Now the good part. I flooded the engine before it started do to my aggressive primer bulbing (>3 times!!).
Removed the plug, dried it and blew air into the cylinder with my bicycle pump, waited 5 minutes, installed plug, primed 1x and pulled 2x for effect/fire. Ran the next 45 minutes without any problems Yea, ST227P.. I last used it in November, 2018 as a pre-season preview. Anyway, hope I learned my lesson as these are really easy to start, if I follow directions. I too have pulled with the rocker in the stop position and learned from that exercise. Bring on spring, golf course has been closed due to snow cover but a good thaw and I'll be hitting that ball again and again and again.
 
#33 · (Edited)
I flooded the engine before it started do to my aggressive primer bulbing (>3 times!!).

Next time just plug the beast in and crank away. It'll blow out the excess fuel and light the fire. Give ur bike pump a break too.[/QUOTE]


Bring on spring, golf course has been closed due to snow cover but a good thaw and I'll be hitting that ball again and again and again.

Gawd! The gall of these west coast lotus landers! No appreciation for those of us that got three more months of old man winter's fury. :biggrin:
 
#32 ·
Glad you got some snow and your STP (haha) is in good working order!


Being in New England it was always fun when you had the 4 Seasons... well now it is like every day of the winter is all seasons it is always a toss up. Very Depressing! I hate rain in the winter!!!!! Anyone else?????? Or a snow storm that turns to rain!!!!!! Argggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#35 ·
Central Oregon storm just dumped 2' of dry snow and more expected. Just cleared our driveway (1.5hr time) with snow above the bucket level. First pass was a little slow but ST227P never missed a beat. Snow was dry (thankfully). Cleared the first pass with taking about half a bucket /less per pass. Snow still falling so 'll wait till tomorrow am and make another driveway clearing. This was the first time that the blower used it's full tank. It started to gulp for fuel just as I was done. Anyway, I like this blower (my first) and got a lot of information from this forum. So thanks to all, and stay warm.
 
#36 ·
This was the first time that the blower used it's full tank. It started to gulp for fuel just as I was done.

Ya got the tiny LCT fuel tank. A little over a half gallon (0.62). Dunno why they put these piddly tanks on these blowers. They produce a tank with a capacity of almost a gallon, which would be far more practical for most of these machines.
 
#37 ·
RE:Fuel tank capacity. It was good for me to end that blowing session after 1.5hrs. Needed a break anyway. Returned for a second clearing later that afternoon as the snow showers took a break. Was able to clear another 8 inches in 40 minutes which gave a clear driveway overnight so that the wife could take our dog to the vet for teeth cleaning this morning.
 
#39 ·
SnoCat and SnowH8ter,

Forecast calling for more snow tonight (2/26/2019). My golf projections are way off now with the cold temps, this is not going to melt off anytime soon. SnoCat, nice pics. My bucket was an inch below the accumulation so I measured around 25 inches here in Eagle Crest/Redmond. I read online (Bulletin, newspaper) that this was the largest dump for February in 118 years, so yes it was epic.

Wife got the dog into the vet with no problem except other drivers not driving safely. Oh well, always a few out there to be aware of.

Well, getting ready for tomorrow driveway clearing. Good blowing!

ST227P
 
#42 ·
I'm new to this, I try to figure out problems the best I can by myself, but I am stumped. Today while snowblowing, the lever used to engage the auger lost all tension, and now you can just pick the lever up and down without ease. When this happened I found a piece of metal on the ground that broke from something looks this the hook end of a spring but I cannot figure what broke or where it came from. Any information would be great.

Thank you
Jerome
 
#43 ·
I'm new to this, I try to figure out problems the best I can by myself, but I am stumped. Today while snowblowing, the lever used to engage the auger lost all tension, and now you can just pick the lever up and down without ease. When this happened I found a piece of metal on the ground that broke from something looks this the hook end of a spring but I cannot figure what broke or where it came from. Any information would be great.
Welcome to SBF. Other than the fact you've posted in a thread related to the Husqvarna ST227P, we don't know anything (other than it's broke) about your snow blower. Is it new? You acquired it 2nd hand? Is it a Husqvarna? You have the manuals for the machine? Plenty of help and advice here but there's not much to go on thus far. And... pictures can be worth a thousand words.
 
#46 ·
Have a look at page 10 of this document:

https://www.husqvarna.com/ddocdownload/HUSI/HUSI2015_AAaa/HUSI2015_AAaa__588133518.pdf

Key No. 2 shows the auger control cable. The spring at the end of this cable has, I suspect, provided you with the broken part you've depicted. You'll need to pull the belt cover off to verify that the spring is in fact broken. The spring would normally be connected to the idler pulley for the impeller/auger drive belt.
 
#45 ·
"Today while snowblowing, the lever used to engage the auger lost all tension, and now you can just pick the lever up and down without ease." Do you mean "with ease" as in flopping up or down?


The auger control (right side)handle on my 2017 ST227P has a black spring that connects under the handle. Is yours still connected? I don't see any other spring in this area. The cable provides the tension for the auger to engage but the black spring is activated when the drive handle (left side) is used. Maybe the end of the cable that goes down to auger area (hook in your pic) broke (ugh). Is the auger still engaged? Need a little more information that would help us.
 
#48 ·
Sorry for the lost contact with the group. I replaced a computer in December and am just now getting around to setting up the social stuff on it.

Since we last left our hero... We've enjoyed a rather snow-lean winter in Bend, right up until a week or two ago when all the missed early snow came in all at once. As others here from the area shared, we started with a couple feet of really nice powder, on top of a firm layer underneath. No problems, except that the new snow clearing service here was late and unprepared. Ended up doing a bit more work that usual, let's say. New neighbor added a blade to his Husky tractor, and he's a little unfamiliar with how the two can work together to move more snow. I ended up overstressing the machine, and it rewarded me by breaking an auger belt. Lesson learned: if the engine is working hard throwing dense snow, the auger belt is a weak point. Good news though, as it took less than 15 mins to get it home and swap in the new belt.

In the next storm, I tried to push some of the larger chunks that the new plow boyz decided to leave in my cul-de-sac. We tell them to stay out but they are slow to learn apparently. One of the chunks caused an auger shear bolt to work as designed.


Now for the Most Fun Part:

The drive unit has been making a clicking noise similar to the sound a stretched chain makes on a worn sprocket. I casually looked at it last year but nothing obvious was wrong so I wandered blissfully into the cause last Friday. At that time, the right-side drive wheel started spinning way fast with almost no drive on the left. I pulled and pushed and engaged and disengaged the drive, and finally got it to go at a brisk walking pace on both wheels with engine idling and drive engaged, while the finger steering controls did nothing. Into the workbay for a drive box teardown, which took maybe 20 minutes (it's my first time...).

A needle bearing in the right-side planetary reduction unit had disintegrated. This bearing rides on what Husky calls the power steering shaft, so when it came apart it did a little work on the shaft. The good news is that it's a common INA needle bearing, and the other two in each reduction unit are also common INA bearings but different size. Order two SCE-108 and four SCE-98 to fix both. The power steering shaft rides on a couple common ball bearings, part number in the parts sheet. The needle bearings are not shown separately. I ordered all those bearings on Amazon on Friday, and they were in my mailbox on Sunday.


The biggest revelation is that the planetary boxes had only a few grams of hardened grease left between the gears inside. There's no evidence that grease was ever used when the needle bearings were assembled. So the planetary units were doomed to failure before the snowblower was even shipped new to me. Hmmm. The ball bearings that support the shaft came on Monday, so it all went together Monday morning after cleaning and inspection. The damaged shaft was dressed with a file to smooth the bearing area, then everything went back together with some synthetic CV joint grease I have for such things. Even with the less-than-perfect bearing surface on the shaft, the machine now rolls amazingly smoothly and quietly. Another set of needle bearings plus a replacement shaft ($22) are on the way, along with some other consumable spares. The shaft is back-ordered of course, with delivery expected in about a month. That should coincide nicely with the normal end of snowblowing season in early April.

So for those playing along at home, I can seriously recommend that you listen to the sounds the drive unit makes when you roll the machine with the engine off. If you hear or feel anything other than butter-smooth from the drive unit, plan on a casual teardown, clean, inspect the moving bits, properly lubricate all those moving bits, and reassemble. Mine was purchased new as a 2015 model in December 2014 if this helps. I still plan on making this an annual spring ritual after seeing how easy it is to do and how just a little carelessness at factory assembly took the machine completely out of service. Were I depending on a commercial service for the repair, it would be at least a month of downtime and a significantly higher cost.

I used it this morning for the first serious duty, in a few inches of new thick snow. All is well again.

:)
 
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#157 ·
I’ve found much the same planetary gear issue with my 227 as others have. Luckily it was discovered when knocked down for a friction disc rubber replacement. While waiting for that part to arrive I had a peek inside one of the planetary gears and found what looked like rust…but just a very thick brownish grease….all along the outer cage….not on the gears. I’ve seen comments about using Redline CV grease. Is this the very best kind to prevent centrifugal force acting on the grease ?
 
#49 ·
Wow, good info, thanks! Is that the sort of thing that you can check/listen for by putting the machine on its nose (in the service position), and turning the axles by hand? Just wondering if it's easier to hear, or pick up on, when there's no engine noise, treads on the pavement, etc.
 
#50 ·
Just roll the machine on its wheels, with the bucket raised a little, and you should have a good idea of the noises it makes.


The two reduction units are "planetary", with a small center drive gear splined to the "steering shaft", then three "planet" gears on a drive plate connected to the output gear, and an outer gear that wraps around the planets, with a support needle bearing on the "steering shaft". To really get a look at the lubrication in the planetary reduction units and all the needle bearings, you'll need to disassemble the pieces from that steering shaft. Of course, you'll need to pull the drive axles and their bull gears, plus the control shaft that holds the "power steering" fingers. Everything is held together with snap rings on all three shafts, except one support bearing on the steering shaft that uses a 5/16" flange nut (1/2" wrench) on one end. Keep track of where all the snap rings fit, as there's a total of about a dozen in three different sizes used in the rear of the drive box.

The follow-up spring maintenance will include installing the new power steering shaft when it gets here, plus a full teardown of the rest of the drive unit including the clutch shafts and mechanism, plus the auger drive since I'll have it most of the way apart anyway. It will be good-as-new or maybe better when that effort is complete.


I used the exploded parts diagram as a guide for reassembly. It shows exactly where the shims and snap rings (really E-clips) go. It doesn't show the little reduction gear units apart, or the details on the needle roller bearings that support the pieces on the steering shaft. You'll find that out when you pull them off and apart. The caged needle bearings have the mfr's name and parts numbers on the ends of the shells, and go in and out pretty easily using a couple sockets as a press in the bench vise. If you catch the bearings and get some grease in them before they self-destruct from lack of lubrication, no need to replace them really.

I'll try and remember to shoot some pics of the service process this spring. There's absolutely nothing that's beyond the ability of someone even slightly familiar with wrenches and a little grease. My tool collection has over eleven wrenches in it now, but I only needed a 3/8" socket to get the cover off, plus a 1/2" socket for the nut on the end of the steering shaft. Out of habit I used a torque wrench on the nut to reinstall (20 lbs/ft on a 5/16" grade-8 nut...) but that's more to avoid over-tightening than to keep something from falling off. It's hardly rocket surgery.


Bob

In parallel, I'm looking hard at my decision to use a residential-class machine to do as much work as I've asked of it. I think that so long as I stick to snow and not plowed ice chunks, I can keep it alive and happy with an annual teardown and lubrication, plus a few cheap ball bearings. If it still suffers even with that treatment, I'll have to adjust my habits (clearing all the neighbors' driveways) or my snowblower budget.
 
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#51 ·
Welcome back dr bob. Thanks for the update on your drive system. I'll look forward to the pics and consider it in my end of season maintenance plan. In fact, I already have the blower on its dolly as I think we may be done for the season. Yes, we were dumped on in late Feb but the ST227P performed without any problems. I rolled it into the garage and no unusual action, just the chain/gear normal noise.

Anyway, spent some time on the north side of the roof today breaking up ice dams. No damage but it is free and clear. Buildup was about 5". I had previously raked about 3' around the perimeter of the entire roof and this was the only accumulation. Golf is about 2 weeks away with the warmer temps on the way. Slow thaw with the cold temps in the forecast.
 
#52 · (Edited)
Hi Jesdog --

My roof looks like yours did before the extra roof clearing. The dams have gone down with the warmer temps the last few days, but still showing a little above the gutter edges. It's been spitting a little snow here the last hour or so on and off. Temp is just above freezing, so it isn't sticking at all to the dark driveway stones. Peering out of the office it looks like a dark cloud patch is just above us; looking west there's a stripe of blue sky so this is obviously a condition intended just for the immediate area at the SE corner of town.

That "chain/gear normal use noise" is exactly what I had been listening to for the last year or so prior to the needle bearing failure. At the end of last season I shared in the maintenance forum and looked for others with similar noises but nobody responded. The stretched-chain noises are interesting, mostly because there are no chains used in the machine. It was all noise from the little planetary reduction units running dry. As soon as convenient, get the machine up off the floor enough to pull the drive box cover (four screws and a 3/8" socket), so you can have your trusty assistant roll a wheel while you listen for where the noise is coming from. The drive box needs to be off the dolly so the bottom cover can come off. For those playing along at home, we discovered that the smaller Harbor Freight mover's dolly is perfect for supporting the machine in the garage so it can be moved easily; we aren't squishing Barbie under the drive box.... Meanwhile, supporting everything is a bit of a challenge, solved by removing the four cover bolts, dropping the rear of the cover, lifting the rear of the machine by the handles to let the cover come off, then supporting the drive box by the bottom flanges where the cover fits. That way the wheels are off the floor and can roll, while you can see/listen for the critical noises. FWIW, getting the drive box open and supporting it was half the battle really. The bits inside come out handily after removing the E-clips on the three shafts in question, plus the nut on the end of the "power steering shaft". Some Redline CV joint grease from the "lubricants" storage bin did the critical duty nicely. It's all amazingly quiet now when rolling on the wheels. Probably quieter than it's ever been.

I'll PM when I get the hard pieces and get ready to go back in. You are welcome to come by and watch, or bring yours if you can and we'll do both at the same time here.
 
#54 ·
dr bob,

I removed the drive box cover and looked inside. There is no metal residue on the bottom of the cover and everything looks deceivingly clean. With the wheels rotating I hear the "whirring noise" but could not isolate what planetary gear reduction unit was the culprit. Interestingly, this has been the sound when I first purchased it new in February 2017. I did notice that there was not a hint of grease anywhere on any "gears/cogs" in the drive unit(?).

Without getting into it at this time, is there a way of lubricating the area of the planetary gear units just to see if the sound is diminished? I downloaded the Parts Manual from SnowH8ter previously so it helps me understand what I am looking at. Anyway, a project for another day. Thanks for the encouragement on disassembling what you did on your initial repair. It may take me more than 20 minutes lol.
 
#55 ·
With the cover off. as you look into the back of the drive box you'll see three shafts lateral. The axle with wheels on each end is obvious, as are the two "bull" gears just inside the walls of the drive box. Those bull gears are driven by smaller gears on what Husqvarna calls a power steering shaft. Those smaller gears are on one end of a planetary reduction gear set, and have the cogged outside housing on them The third shaft upper rear holds two arms with little dog blocks on them to engage the cogs on the planetary units. As luck would have it, the axle shaft between the wheels and the shaft right above it both need to come out before the power steering shaft with the two planetary reduction gears and the drive tire pieces in the middle can be removed intact. Once removed, a couple E-clips on the ends allow the little planetary reduction units to come ff the power steering shaft. Once they are removed, you can remove the outer part with the pinion (DRIVE) gear from the cogged outside housing, and find the three little planet gears inside. Scrape out the red wax that once was grease. Install new grease to lubricate the little pins that hold the planets, then the gear teeth of all inside the assembly, plus the pinion on the outside and the bull gears they mesh with. The needle roller bearings that ride on the power steering shaft are dry, so they need some of the same grease worked in before they are assembled on the shaft again.

Once done and reassembled, the "whirring noise" will pretty much disappear when the wheels are turned by hand. Mine had a little noise when new, but that noise level increased over the next few years to the point it worried me. I didn't see the issue beyond just the noises, and the increase was slow and gradual enough that I didn't get mad enough at it until it screwed me up at the far extreme of the block.
 
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#56 ·
Thank you again. The tear down was clear and concise (just like an engineer, lol). I'll print out your reply and follow step by step. I already identified the drive shafts, etc. I'll pick up some synthetic grease before the project, having everything organized, and hope for the best. I think your identifying similar sounds may now be a preventative maintenance for all of us with these machines.
 
#57 ·
My tool pile has some of those magnetic parts trays to keep the E-clips separated and close by. I also use a plastic coffee can with a screw-on lid as a small-parts cleaner/degreaser. A few ounces of deodorized mineral spirits/paint thinner, add parts, close lid, shake well, remove lid. Magnetic pick-up tool and some plastic gloves round out the cleaning package.

Ping/PM me if you get stuck on something. I can't be more than twenty minutes or so from you. If my seeing-eye dog can find your address on a map we're golden.
 
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#59 ·
After a couple stutter-steps from the online parts place (in Florida...), I finally received an e-mail today with shipping info and some tracking numbers. So the hard parts should be here in less than a week, and hopefully I'll get to do a combined "more permanent fix" and "get it ready for summer hibernation" sometime in early April. I'll get the camera crew lined up for a feature documentary production.
 
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#60 ·
That's good news on your parts and likewise my hibernation maintenance will start soon. Our weather has turned the corner and looks like spring has finally arrived. Finally snow/ice has finally come off the roof and I see some spots of turf as the snow melts.

Anyway, look forward to your epic production and will have my popcorn ready. Enjoy the weather. I'll wait till a little warmer then get into the drive train "whirring" issue. Thanks for the update.
 
#61 ·
Dr Bob, I've been watching your thread on the ST227P with interest, particularly the latter posts on lubrication of the gears. On looking at the owner's manual (115 68 34-27 Rev. 3), page 14 has this:


TRACTION DRIVE SYSTEM
DO NOT lubricate the drive components inside the snow
thrower. The sprockets, hex shafts, drive disc and friction
wheel require no lubrication. The bearings and bushings
are lifetime lubricated and require no maintenance.
CAUTION: Any lubricating of the above components
can cause contamination of the friction
wheel and damage to the drive system of your
snow thrower.


It would seem that your findings are contrary to what the manual says. I got mine in February 2018; would that have changed things vs your 2015 machine? Perhaps the mfg has learned from mistakes, improved quality control?


Another question: if I do get into checking lubrication of the planetary gear bearings, for ease of access is it ok to tilt the machine up onto the front of the bucket, or would I be asking for trouble by putting the engine 90 degrees out of horizontal and having fluids dribble out the wrong places?
 
#62 ·
Hi Dick --

I looked at the manual recommendations for no lubrication on drive pieces in the box, and then looked at the chewed up steering shaft and the fragments of roller bearing rollers that had locked up the planetary box. Their idea of "lifetime lubrication" for the bearings was the same as "none". Maybe their "lifetime" expectancy is a lot shorter than mine for these pieces. It was a tough decision (not...) to replace the bearings, pack them with heavy grease, and reassemble. I agree that you don't want anything to contaminate the friction disk and the rubber tire on the drive wheel, so of course you'll want to use some good sense and not add globs of grease where they will get thrown around on the drive disk. The dry needle bearings were inside the planetary reduction box, three in each one. There are no seals of any kind to keep grease in the bearings or housings so this will likely turn into an annual exercise at least for me. Meanwhile, looking at the parts sheet, the rubber tire for the friction drive is about $7, so a new one came this week (finally...) with the rest of the new and spare drive parts. I'll be getting into the project in the next few weeks, as soon as spring really launches and the machine is ready to be put away for the summer.

Maybe of interest: I dropped the drive box cover for a peeky after about 4 hours of use on the greased bearings. No traces of grease on anything except the cover itself and the case flanges it fastens to, all below the drive gears. Nothing anywhere near the friction disk or the tire. The difference in noise and smoothness is pretty impressive, by the way. Having the reduction boxes working is essential, while the telltale noise reduction is icing on the cake really.


Plan is to run the video cameras when I take the box apart this time. Hopefully someone will find it useful, and save themselves the annoyance of the bearing failure over less than an ounce of synthetic CV joint grease.
 
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#63 ·
Carrying the "lifetime" theme a little further, the only lubricated and sealed bearings in the drive section are the two ball bearings that carry the steering shaft. You can see the bearings from the outside of the case on either side, above where the main wheel axles pass through the housing. These bearings were all but frozen up, so they were replaced with new as part of the band-aid session for the planetary units' dry needle bearings. Bearings were cheap (under $15/pr on Amazon with the needle bearings), so there's an extra set in the spares box for the time I find them even a little grumbly. They come off the shaft when the needle bearings get serviced, so easy to check and easy to just replace when needed.
 
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