Predator 212cc torque? - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
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post #1 of 25 Old 02-26-2015, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Predator 212cc torque?

This question is just a curiosity for my nerd side.

I was at HF today and looking at the 6.5 HP 212cc Predator engines on display.

I noticed the Info card hanging from the engine listed the torque at 8.8 Ft. lbs. My first reaction was wow they recently improved it. I then looked at the boxes of stocked engines below and the torque was listed at 8.1 ft. lbs. (as printed on the outside of the box).

Is that info card a typo or did they recently increase the torque?

I did see they changed the on/off switch. It has a longer tab which I like. Easier to move with a glove on.

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post #2 of 25 Old 02-26-2015, 11:27 PM
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Well.. Most specs say it is peak tq of 8.1 ft-lbs at 2500 rpm. If this is indeed the case then in order to get 6.5 HP they are running the engine at a higher RPM than the max 3600 stated.

In order to get 6.5 hp with a TQ of 8.1 ft-lbs they would need to run the engine at ~4200 rpm. Since the peak TQ is at 2500 rpm you would assume they needed to run the engine even faster than 4200 rpm to get 6.5 hp.

So at 3600 rpm this engine is more like 5 - 5.5hp.

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post #3 of 25 Old 02-26-2015, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuofsci02 View Post
Well.. Most specs say it is peak tq of 8.1 ft-lbs at 2500 rpm. If this is indeed the case then in order to get 6.5 HP they are running the engine at a higher RPM than the max 3600 stated.

In order to get 6.5 hp with a TQ of 8.1 ft-lbs they would need to run the engine at ~4200 rpm. Since the peak TQ is at 2500 rpm you would assume they needed to run the engine even faster than 4200 rpm to get 6.5 hp.

So at 3600 rpm this engine is more like 5 - 5.5hp.
These engines (at 3600rpm) feel VERY strong, they are rated conservatively if anything. In fact, after rejet for winter conditions I would estimate the 212cc at 7 plus. Speaking from using one here, not saying your math isn't correct, but the old addage.. the proof is in the pudding, applies here.

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post #4 of 25 Old 02-26-2015, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuofsci02 View Post
Well.. Most specs say it is peak tq of 8.1 ft-lbs at 2500 rpm. If this is indeed the case then in order to get 6.5 HP they are running the engine at a higher RPM than the max 3600 stated.

In order to get 6.5 hp with a TQ of 8.1 ft-lbs they would need to run the engine at ~4200 rpm. Since the peak TQ is at 2500 rpm you would assume they needed to run the engine even faster than 4200 rpm to get 6.5 hp.

So at 3600 rpm this engine is more like 5 - 5.5hp.
No way is this engine only making 5-5.5hp. It easily compares very well to an 8hp Flathead. I had an 8hp Flat head Briggs on my old Motgomery Ward (Gilson) which I re-powered with a Predator 212cc and the Predator engine is every bit as powerful as that is or even more powerful. I had a gutless 5Hp Tecumseh engine on my old MTD 5/22 and the Predator was a huge upgrade. It goes through the piled up snow at the end of the driveway like it is not even there. I can throw snow 40 to 50 feet with it. Here is a video of my Predator tossing the snow. Listen to the tone of the engine. It is not even working hard when throwing the snow. NR racing dynoed a stock Predator 212cc and the only thing they did was replace the stock airbox with a K&N styke low restriction air filter as well as putting in a larger high speed jet and they dynoed the engine at just over 9hp with out touching any of the internals.


Last edited by GustoGuy; 02-26-2015 at 11:41 PM.
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post #5 of 25 Old 02-26-2015, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pathfinder13 View Post
These engines (at 3600rpm) feel VERY strong, they are rated conservatively if anything. In fact, after rejet for winter conditions I would estimate the 212cc at 7 plus. Speaking from using one here, not saying your math isn't correct, but the old addage.. the proof is in the pudding, applies here.
Well... They are either overrating their HP or underrating their TQ (and I doubt it is the latter). This is very common in small engines which is why everyone now has to use TQ measurement..

I am sure the predator feels stronger then other engines of similar HP because all the other engine manufacturers are doing the same thing. Rating the HP at a RPM that is higher then the factory governed RPM.

I am not saying anything about the quality of the motor, but we should not kid ourselves when it come to states HP rating. I like TQ measurement much better since for these types of motors the peak fall in the operating RPM.

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post #6 of 25 Old 02-26-2015, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GustoGuy View Post
No way is this engine only making 5-5.5hp. It easily compares very well to an 8hp Flathead. I had an 8hp Flat head Briggs on my old Motgomery Ward (gilson) which I re-powered with a Predator 212cc and the Predator engine is every bit as powerful as that is or even more powerful. I had a gutless 5Hp Tecumseh engine on my old MTD 5/22 and the Predator was a huge upgrade. It goes through the piled up snow at the end of the driveway like it is not even there. I can throw snow 40 to 50 feet with it. Here is a video of my Predator tossing the snow. Listen to the tone of the engine. It is not even working hard when throwing the snow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONdFik8kges
I am not saying that the predator is less powerful. I am saying the old engines weren't being run at what they were rated.

The simple truth is HP = TQ * RPM/5252

There is no magic to this. If your engine runs max 3600 rpm then HP = TQ * 0.69

Therefore in order to get 6.5 HP you need 9.5 ft-lbs...

Nice video BTW..

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Last edited by Stuofsci02; 02-26-2015 at 11:45 PM.
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post #7 of 25 Old 02-26-2015, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuofsci02 View Post
I am not saying that the predator is less powerful. I am saying the old engines weren't being run at what they were rated.

The simple truth is HP = TQ * RPM/5252

There is no magic to this. If your engine runs max 3600 rpm then HP = TQ * 0.69

Therefore in order to get 6.5 HP you need 9.5 ft-lbs...
Actually the old engines were rated as gross Hp wich is not as good a measurement as net horspower or torque is. So if anything new engines with 7hp should be able to out preform old 7hp rated engines easily since the old engines hp value was overrated.
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post #8 of 25 Old 02-26-2015, 11:48 PM
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Actually the old engines were rated as gross Hp wich is not as good a measurement as net horspower or torque is. So if anything new engines with 7hp should be able to out preform old 7hp rated engines easily since the old engines hp value was overrated.
That may be, but the new engines are still being overrated on HP....

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post #9 of 25 Old 02-26-2015, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuofsci02 View Post
I am not saying that the predator is less powerful. I am saying the old engines weren't being run at what they were rated.

The simple truth is HP = TQ * RPM/5252

There is no magic to this. If your engine runs max 3600 rpm then HP = TQ * 0.69

Therefore in order to get 6.5 HP you need 9.5 ft-lbs...

Nice video BTW..
I would agree with the math you present but there is the winter factor and the jetting.

It might well have the 9 or 9.5 after rejetted and it's getting the winter air and proper fuel. I am thinking they are rated at a normal (say just for argument sake) 65 degrees and stock jetting. Make that 20 degrees and larger jets, the engine breaths well with no air filter and it feels MUCH stronger.

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post #10 of 25 Old 02-26-2015, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Pathfinder13 View Post
I would agree with the math you present but there is the winter factor and the jetting.

It might well have the 9 or 9.5 after rejetted and it's getting the winter air and proper fuel. I am thinking they are rated at a normal (say just for argument sake) 65 degrees and stock jetting. Make that 20 degrees and larger jets, the engine breaths well with no air filter and it feels MUCH stronger.
I am sure this is the case.. Still the engine maker claims 6.5 HP and 8.1 TQ with a max RPM of 3600. This is impossible..

That said I would use one of these in a heartbeat for a repower application....

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