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post #1 of 17 Old 02-28-2015, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Troybilt / Bolens 5210R gearbox & Predator

Based on looking up the schematic my new Hemi Head single shaft Predator is going to be used on another snow blower because the Bolens / Troybilt snowblower has a gear box not a friction plate. At first blush I have no clue as to how to reverse the geared transmission.

See schematic below:


Here is a 2013 thread that discusses the problem with repowering and the inability to flip the gearbox.
https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum...rse-gears.html


A crossed belt would work. Below is a link to an animation.
507 Mechanical Movements, 2, Pulleys and Crossed Belt



Bill

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1989 Bolens 5210 R 21" - 5 hp 2 stage -- Impeller kit worked wonders
1983 Honda single stage -- HS 35 single stage -- still going strong

Last edited by Prof100; 03-01-2015 at 01:33 AM.
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post #2 of 17 Old 03-01-2015, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Peerless 3 speed Tecumseh transmission

Without taking the snow blower transmission cover panels off the best I can tell the transmission is a Tecumseh Peerless 3 speed transmission.

I think the part number is 700-027A05271-2036. The trick is how to feed it a reverse rotation to regain the 3 forward speeds and driving off a single shaft Predator.


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1989 Bolens 5210 R 21" - 5 hp 2 stage -- Impeller kit worked wonders
1983 Honda single stage -- HS 35 single stage -- still going strong

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post #3 of 17 Old 03-01-2015, 11:12 AM
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You will need 3 pulleys to run the drive in reverse direction. You will need to make a bracket out of a plate of metal with a half circle cut out to go around the PTO and mount 2 of the idler style pulleys on and bolt it to your engine above the PTO shaft. You then will need a small pulley for the PTO. You then need to place the belt in these pulleys above the pto and then pull the belt down and the PTO will run the back side of the drive belt. I seen this before in a previous post. I will look for it and attach the link.

I posted way too much and I can't find the innovative bracket made by someone here on the forum who repowered a dual shaft tecumseh with a single shaft and made a bracket with 2 pulleys and powered the drive with the back side of the belt with the PTO. If anyone else knows what I am talking about please post the link.

I wasted 30 minutes looking for it so I googled and I found something that will help you to visualize how it would look. Mind you this is on a car engine but the concept is the same. Imagine a plate of steel about 6 inches long by 3 inches wide with 2 idler pulleys bolted to it and in the center it is cut out to make room for the PTO shaft about 2 inces in a half circle. 2 holes are drilled in it that will mount the plate to the engine. The idler pulleys are slightly higer than the PTO pulley and the belt goes over them and is pulled down between these pulleys and the back side of the belt is driven by the PTO pulley. This will reverse the direction of the drive on the single shaft and allow for 1 reverse and 3 forward speeds with your Peerless transmission


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post #4 of 17 Old 03-01-2015, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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GustoGuy,

Thanks for checking and searching you did. I get the concept from the example photo. It would be great to find the post which would have a more relevant design to review including packaging, adjustability and gear ratios.

Bill

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1989 Bolens 5210 R 21" - 5 hp 2 stage -- Impeller kit worked wonders
1983 Honda single stage -- HS 35 single stage -- still going strong
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post #5 of 17 Old 03-01-2015, 02:28 PM
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I would simply look at the size of the pulleys that are on it now. You can figure that you will need to increase the size of the pulley that connects to the peerless transmission by a multiple of about 1.5 since the PTO shaft will be turning at twice the rate of the Camshaft pulley on the 2 pulley engine. Also start with the smallest drive pulley you can on the PTO. I suggest just approximating it because you can be off by a small amount with out it causing too much problems. Here is a schematic of your snow blowers drive. It looks like you can increase the size of the pulley on the transmission easily since there is plenty of room in the belly pan.


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post #6 of 17 Old 03-01-2015, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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Under the cover pictures of stock Bolens 5210R

I I took some pictures of the twin motor shaft Bolens 5210R 21" 2 stage Tecumseh power. Rear wheels are driven by a Peerless 3 speed transmission. See pictures below.



Auger engagement picture






Picture that shows the power system and drive engagement belt and idler pulley that swings in to engage when squeezing the handle grip lever. The current position of the pulley on the end of the camshaft would be a good location for one of the idler pulleys. A new idler pulley needs to be added up and to the left of the main output shaft. Unfortunately, it will require modify the cover to clear the added pulley. The question is how small a pulley can I get on the main shaft and can the double idle pully reversing belt sit lose and not get bound up.


Finger near phenolic sleeve that free rotates (see XXX). It is there to protect the drive belt that turns the opposite direction.



Another picture of Drive system powered off the camshaft.


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1989 Bolens 5210 R 21" - 5 hp 2 stage -- Impeller kit worked wonders
1983 Honda single stage -- HS 35 single stage -- still going strong

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post #7 of 17 Old 03-01-2015, 08:51 PM
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Interesting. I see you have a drive engagement idler. On the friction plate models you engage by squeezing the hand lever and that moves the pick up wheel into the friction disk. You will need to run the belt a bit loose so it will slip on the PTO pulley and hopefully the (over and under and over again) idler bracket will work with out it wanting to spin the belt continuously. I thought the Peerless transmission had a neutral on it? Evidently not, but as long as you have a deep enough V belt groove and the PTO pulley has a Deep enough groove so the belt does not come out of the pulley I do not see why it will not work. Keep us informed on your progress on this and your Fabricated Idler pulley bracket could be a great way for others here on the Forum to use to re-power snow blowers that came with dual shaft engines where the transmission can not be easily flipped like the MTD's.

Mark
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post #8 of 17 Old 03-01-2015, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GustoGuy View Post
Interesting. I see you have a drive engagement idler. On the friction plate models you engage by squeezing the hand lever and that moves the pick up wheel into the friction disk. You will need to run the belt a bit loose so it will slip on the PTO pulley and hopefully the (over and under and over again) idler bracket will work with out it wanting to spin the belt continuously. I thought the Peerless transmission had a neutral on it? Evidently not, but as long as you have a deep enough V belt groove and the PTO pulley has a Deep enough groove so the belt does not come out of the pulley I do not see why it will not work. Keep us informed on your progress on this and your Fabricated Idler pulley bracket could be a great way for others here on the Forum to use to re-power snow blowers that came with dual shaft engines where the transmission can not be easily flipped like the MTD's.

Mark
Mark,

The Tecumseh Peerless transmissions all have neutral and reverse. The variant is number of forward speeds (3, 4 and 5). Mine is a three speed. There is a simple L shaped lever off the back of the snow blower. Swung to the right is reverse then neutral is one to the left followed by 1st, 2nd and 3rd. (3-2-1-N-R)

Below is the link to the Tecumseh Peerless technician handbook. Mine can be found in there. It is the 3 speed 700 series. Url takes you to a pdf.

Tecumseh / Peerless Motion Drive System - WFMFiles.com

Stay tuned.

Bill

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1989 Bolens 5210 R 21" - 5 hp 2 stage -- Impeller kit worked wonders
1983 Honda single stage -- HS 35 single stage -- still going strong

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post #9 of 17 Old 03-02-2015, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Picture mockup of adding a idler pulley

I took a screen shot to put in a 2nd pulley to represent another idler pulley for reversing the rotation.

See two shots below... both are simple illustration of what might work.




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1983 Honda single stage -- HS 35 single stage -- still going strong
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post #10 of 17 Old 03-02-2015, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Study yields there is not enough space for twin idlers

After looking at the existing design there appears to be a "show stopper" for adding the twin idler pulleys to reverse the rotation of the single shaft motor. Look at the picture below and you see two formed wires that retain the belts on the pulleys when auger or drive are disengaged. package twin idlers that reverse rotation and add a belt to go down to wheel drive pulley is blocked by the formed wires which have a primary function of keeping the belts in the pulleys when disengaged.

I conclude the re-engineering is not worth it and my goal is simply to repower not redesign the pulley drive system for a Bolens / Troybilt snowblower. The space available for adding two idler pulleys and longer belt is more design and development than I want to do.

Bill


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1989 Bolens 5210 R 21" - 5 hp 2 stage -- Impeller kit worked wonders
1983 Honda single stage -- HS 35 single stage -- still going strong

Last edited by Prof100; 03-02-2015 at 05:19 PM.
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