30 year old Toro Powershift 824 - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 Old 01-04-2020, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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30 year old Toro Powershift 824

Carb adjustment question. I’ve owned this machine since new and it has been faithfully over maintained its entire life. Last year I replaced the carb with an aftermarket unit and have fount it difficult to fine tune. Both the idle mixture and the power adjusting screws seem to have almost zero adjustment capability. When adjusted to the baseline starting position (1 1/2, 1 turn respectively) I’m able to start the machine but, from that point, the adjustment of these screws seem to have almost no effect on the running of the machine, up to the point that the screws are fully seated. Conversely, increasing the amount of turns has the same result and would likely be the same up to the point that they were actually removed completely. In addition, whenever I do get to the point where the machine seems to be running well, it changes on the next use, and I’m once again fiddling with a carb adjustment. Curious if anyone has experienced the same issues.
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post #2 of 10 Old 01-04-2020, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightymooee View Post
Carb adjustment question. I’ve owned this machine since new and it has been faithfully over maintained its entire life. Last year I replaced the carb with an aftermarket unit and have fount it difficult to fine tune. Both the idle mixture and the power adjusting screws seem to have almost zero adjustment capability. When adjusted to the baseline starting position (1 1/2, 1 turn respectively) I’m able to start the machine but, from that point, the adjustment of these screws seem to have almost no effect on the running of the machine, up to the point that the screws are fully seated. Conversely, increasing the amount of turns has the same result and would likely be the same up to the point that they were actually removed completely. In addition, whenever I do get to the point where the machine seems to be running well, it changes on the next use, and I’m once again fiddling with a carb adjustment. Curious if anyone has experienced the same issues.
Better find a better carb 4 it.

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post #3 of 10 Old 01-04-2020, 02:38 PM
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Welcome to SBF. Buying a new carb doesn't mean it is a good carb, mistakes happen during manufacture. Are you sure your gaskets between the carb and manifold \ engine block are good?
Have you ever checked the valve lash which could affect how the engine runs overall?

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post #4 of 10 Old 01-04-2020, 03:19 PM
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with Grunt's suggestions.

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post #5 of 10 Old 01-04-2020, 04:06 PM
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Often a carb is replaced when there is an other issue that is the underlying cause - failure to respond to adjustments indicates other and change in ops says the same.

It may be there are leaks around the base and even cracks in the head.

That is a very old machine, mine gave up the ghost at 25 years.

Take a look at the overall condition and is it worth putting money into something you have more than got your money out of?

My Toro had a bad engine (totally worn out) and I could have replaced that, but the frame was crackling as well. Nothing against Toro, the 25 years (3 owners) was a great return for all of us.

I have been assessing the Yamaha this year as its 22 years old, in that case it all is solid, I can't fine a worn part or fail of ops anywhere on it. I am more than willing to replace parts on it as I will get a significant return.


Years back I had a CJ-7 Jeep with an odd mount starter, rather than to the block the starter mounted to the flywheel housing. That in turn required special shimage as the flywheel was a major variable in aliment to the block and flywheel teeth (two major different casing bolted togher.


Starter went, I replaced the starter with the same shims (makes sense, once its set up right any new starter should be good)


Then it acted up, book had a whole section as to what shimage you needed to correct what symptoms, so I got out the beer cans and made shims to deal with the symptom.


Then it did something else, hmm, now it says take shims away and I de-shimed it all the way including the original shims.

Then back to the other extreme.

Finally I decided it was a **** starter as no way would alignment change form one extreme to the other and as it was barley out of warranty, the parts place agreed to let me try a replacement.



I put the original shims on and damned if it was not perfect. I had spent a year fighting a bad starter not a shim problem.

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Last edited by RC20; 01-04-2020 at 04:15 PM.
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post #6 of 10 Old 01-04-2020, 04:10 PM
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post #7 of 10 Old 01-05-2020, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20 View Post
Often a carb is replaced when there is an other issue that is the underlying cause - failure to respond to adjustments indicates other and change in ops says the same.

It may be there are leaks around the base and even cracks in the head.

That is a very old machine, mine gave up the ghost at 25 years.

Take a look at the overall condition and is it worth putting money into something you have more than got your money out of?

My Toro had a bad engine (totally worn out) and I could have replaced that, but the frame was crackling as well. Nothing against Toro, the 25 years (3 owners) was a great return for all of us.

I have been assessing the Yamaha this year as its 22 years old, in that case it all is solid, I can't fine a worn part or fail of ops anywhere on it. I am more than willing to replace parts on it as I will get a significant return.


Years back I had a CJ-7 Jeep with an odd mount starter, rather than to the block the starter mounted to the flywheel housing. That in turn required special shimage as the flywheel was a major variable in aliment to the block and flywheel teeth (two major different casing bolted togher.


Starter went, I replaced the starter with the same shims (makes sense, once its set up right any new starter should be good)


Then it acted up, book had a whole section as to what shimage you needed to correct what symptoms, so I got out the beer cans and made shims to deal with the symptom.


Then it did something else, hmm, now it says take shims away and I de-shimed it all the way including the original shims.

Then back to the other extreme.

Finally I decided it was a **** starter as no way would alignment change form one extreme to the other and as it was barley out of warranty, the parts place agreed to let me try a replacement.



I put the original shims on and damned if it was not perfect. I had spent a year fighting a bad starter not a shim problem.
Thanks for the response and the welcome to this group. I agree with the assessment that this is an older machine and it has certainly been put through it’s paces dealing with the heavy snowfalls that are common to eastern North Dakota. That said, I should probably clarify the condition. As originally stated, it has been faithfully over maintained (non-ethanol based/stabilized fuel, hour based oil changes, proper storage, etc.). I would asses the overall condition as an 8/10 with the machine boasting all of its original equipment, save for the high wear items such as belts, skid shoes, scraper bar, plug, and somewhat recently, the carb.

The assessment of the carb being replaced to address an underlying or unassociated condition is partially correct. Over the past several years the machine developed an increasing surging issue that I assumed was a result of excessive clearance in the throttle shaft area. Upon replacement, the machine did run marginally better but the surging condition was still present. It was later discovered that the spring on the throttle, holding tension on the governor, had become weakened after 30 years use. Removal and re-tensioning (later replacing) the spring corrected the surging.

Carb to intake gasket was replaced at the time of carb install. Intake to motor gasket appears intact with no visual signs of deformity or leakage. The head appears intact with no signs of soot tracking, blow by, or oil leakage, but I can’t attest to a possible gasket issue without head removal, and I’m not quite at that point, given the fact that, at times, the machine runs very well, and then, somewhat raggedy.

At this time I am leaning towards the strong possibility that the condition is likely the cause of some shoddy manufacturing in the aftermarket carb and will probably roll the dice and replace again considering the low cost.
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post #8 of 10 Old 01-13-2020, 08:58 PM
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Perhaps it's time to start thinking repower. I put a Honda on my 1028, Runs great lots of power.

If I can't fix it, I can screw it up so bad that no one else can either!
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post #9 of 10 Old 01-14-2020, 05:44 AM
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I had the same problem with my 10hp Tecumseh. Throttle shaft and body were wore out. I bought 2 new carburetors for it and they were both junk. I found and rebuilt a good carburetor from a badly treated, low hour 8 horse. Problems solved.
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post #10 of 10 Old 01-16-2020, 09:11 AM
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+1 on a new carb. I got an $11 chinese non-adjustable one (with throttle, though) that worked wonders on a 5 hp Techumseh.


On that 8 hp you may want to check the valve clearance behind that little plate under the muffler. If unadjusted for 30 years, I will bet it's too small. Correct adjustment and a good spark plug (and spark wire) will take away all backfiring and blue flames out of the muffler.

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