New guy troubleshooting a Toro 5/24 - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
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post #1 of 24 Old 01-05-2016, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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New guy troubleshooting a Toro 5/24

Good morning! I have somewhat of a dumb question. I am troubleshooting a 1987 Toro 5/24 with a H50 Tecumseh. The machine starts and runs, but will not shut off with the key. I found and corrected some wiring issues, and cleaned a few connections so far. I made it to the engine and found this. I cannot find this piece in any parts diagrams, and I am not sure what it is, or what the wire should connect to if anything. It is located on the lower left of the engine. Can someone identify please? Thanks for whatever help you can give.
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post #2 of 24 Old 01-05-2016, 10:14 AM
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Looks like part of a safety system. Does your machine have an little lever that doesn't really do much? It is probably suppose to kill the engine if the auger is engaged and the drive isn't unless you are holding on to something.

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post #3 of 24 Old 01-05-2016, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRP View Post
Good morning! I have somewhat of a dumb question. I am troubleshooting a 1987 Toro 5/24 with a H50 Tecumseh. The machine starts and runs, but will not shut off with the key. I found and corrected some wiring issues, and cleaned a few connections so far. I made it to the engine and found this. I cannot find this piece in any parts diagrams, and I am not sure what it is, or what the wire should connect to if anything. It is located on the lower left of the engine. Can someone identify please? Thanks for whatever help you can give.
If that wire is NOT re-connected, you will probably be unable to shut off the engine. I notice you mentioned that.

In short, the dangling wire should probably be connected to the shared isolated kill terminal about one inch away from its location in your image.
It's almost certainly coming from a kill switch somewhere. Probably that key that you say is not working.

My thread over here describes in lots of details what that wiring is and how it works...

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum...50-67324k.html

Especially this image and the descriptions leading up to it

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum...-56-arrows-jpg

Different make and model but the concepts are the same


P.S. There are no dumb questions.... only dumb answers!

Last edited by unknown1; 01-05-2016 at 11:23 AM.
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post #4 of 24 Old 01-05-2016, 11:18 AM
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Do you have the model and serial number ?? It would help to be able to look up the wiring schematic if it's available.

https://www.toro.com/en/parts


Not sure if this applies to your machine but you can try following the wires and see.

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post #5 of 24 Old 01-05-2016, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shryp View Post
Looks like part of a safety system. Does your machine have an little lever that doesn't really do much? It is probably suppose to kill the engine if the auger is engaged and the drive isn't unless you are holding on to something.
The only lever is on the right handle bar for the auger safety switch I believe.

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Originally Posted by Kiss4aFrog View Post
Do you have the model and serial number ?? It would help to be able to look up the wiring schematic if it's available.

https://www.toro.com/en/parts


Not sure if this applies to your machine but you can try following the wires and see.

.
Thanks! It's a model 38040 S/N 7001012

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Originally Posted by stuart80112 View Post
If that wire is NOT re-connected, you will probably be unable to shut off the engine. I notice you mentioned that.

In short, the dangling wire should probably be connected to the shared isolated kill terminal about one inch away from its location in your image.
It's almost certainly coming from a kill switch somewhere. Probably that key that you say is not working.

My thread over here describes in lots of details what that wiring is and how it works...

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum...50-67324k.html

Especially this image and the descriptions leading up to it

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum...-56-arrows-jpg

Different make and model but the concepts are the same


P.S. There are no dumb questions.... only dumb answers!
Thank you! I knew I came to the right place. I was thinking the same thing about the shared isolated kill terminal you mentioned. I looked for any witness marks that would indicate it had been connected there in the past, but I could not see anything obvious. This machine is one that I rescued when a family member was going to send it to the scrap yard. I have no idea what work was done to it in the past, or by who. I will report back again.
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-05-2016, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NRP View Post
The only lever is on the right handle bar for the auger safety switch I believe.
Guessing and reading between the lines.... I have no knowledge of your model... it sounds like you may have two distinct ways of (supposedly) shutting off the engine.

1) The start key (that you say isn't working)
2) A dead-man switch on the handle bars (designed to shut down if you fall or let go)

As described in the thread I pointed you to, they should all work the same way I think... basically they ground out the "kill terminal" on the ignition "coil".

If that's what you think you have... there should be one more wire somewhere that needs to hook onto that "isolated kill terminal"

....just guessing.
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-05-2016, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuart80112 View Post
Guessing and reading between the lines.... I have no knowledge of your model... it sounds like you may have two distinct ways of (supposedly) shutting off the engine.

1) The start key (that you say isn't working)
2) A dead-man switch on the handle bars (designed to shut down if you fall or let go)

As described in the thread I pointed you to, they should all work the same way I think... basically they ground out the "kill terminal" on the ignition "coil".

If that's what you think you have... there should be one more wire somewhere that needs to hook onto that "isolated kill terminal"

....just guessing.
just looked up your model....
It's all here..
that's a lot of switches!

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/toro-38040-700000179999991987-snowthrower-parts-c-121776_121777_123476.html

All schematics here: (see Page H)
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/tor...77_123476.html

Last edited by unknown1; 01-06-2016 at 12:19 AM. Reason: changed link for serial #
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post #8 of 24 Old 01-06-2016, 06:45 AM
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Interlock module is a pretty common fail on toros. It processes the handlebar & auger/traction limit switches to determine if the ignition should be grounded.

I ended up disconnecting mine (noone but me uses the machine) due to intermittent functionality. Our problem is that all of the limit switches are the opposite condition (NC) to simply ground the ignition when either the tractor or auger is engaged & the handlebar switch (NO) is not. The throttle control on the engine itself will still ground the ignition when you throttle down.

So if you have a source of power, we should be able to ground the ignition using a relay. You just won't be able to dummy-proof it against starting the machine with the auger &/or traction engaged.


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post #9 of 24 Old 01-07-2016, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuart80112 View Post
Thanks again for the help and information. The thread you linked to was a huge help. Unfortunately work has been hectic this week and haven't had time to get out into the garage. In the next day or so I should get out there. I will report back with my findings.

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Originally Posted by classiccat View Post
Interlock module is a pretty common fail on toros. It processes the handlebar & auger/traction limit switches to determine if the ignition should be grounded.

I ended up disconnecting mine (noone but me uses the machine) due to intermittent functionality. Our problem is that all of the limit switches are the opposite condition (NC) to simply ground the ignition when either the tractor or auger is engaged & the handlebar switch (NO) is not. The throttle control on the engine itself will still ground the ignition when you throttle down.

So if you have a source of power, we should be able to ground the ignition using a relay. You just won't be able to dummy-proof it against starting the machine with the auger &/or traction engaged.
I didn't know it was that common to fail, but it makes sense. I am in the same situation you are, in that I am the only one using the machine. The relay idea is very good, and I may have to copy your fix. Thanks for the information, and direction.
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post #10 of 24 Old 01-08-2016, 04:11 PM
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We have a small problem here.The interlock module does not work in the usual fashion by grounding(everything to the left of the module is "floating" at an unknown voltage and cannot and should not be grounded.).Instead there's a small current robbed from the ignition coil that is being monitored by the switches and that tells the transistorized module what's going on.If it receives a signal meaning wrong handling by the operator,it shorts the kill wire to ground.
Source:
Toro wheelhorse Demystification Electical wiring diagrams for all WheelHorse tractors
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