Engine Swap: Different size shaft - Ariens Platnium 30 (921018) - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 01-14-2016, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southeast NH
Posts: 3
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 2
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 2
Likes (Received): 0
Engine Swap: Different size shaft - Ariens Platnium 30 (921018)

Hi all-

First, thanks to everyone who repeatedly offer advice, suggestions and direction for folks like myself. Forums like this offer invaluable service to people like me who may not have that person in their network to ask such specific questions.

I was given a five year old Ariens Platnium 30, model 921018 for free by an in law after he blew the engine and purchased the same, new model. Awesome.

We attempted to purchase a replacement engine, relying on the model of the engine and approximate production year. Well, I made what I know to be a grave mistake and didn't take it down to the Briggs & Stratton TYPE, only looking at the model and not the type. Unfortunately, I now have an engine with a 3/4" shaft instead of a 1" shaft. Everything else about the engine lines up perfectly including the hole pattern and the shaft height from base.

I looked into one of those shaft sleeve adapters (ex from Amazon:


)

but the issue with these is that the existing pulleys have the keyway built in, so no place for the steped key that comes with the adapter to slide in.

After a few days of research, I believe I am left with three options:

1) Try to purchase and match the pulley setup in the attached pictures for 3/4" bore pulleys.

2) Proceed with purchasing the adapter sleeve and try to find a machine shop to drill out the existing key on the existing pulleys.

3) Suck up the costs related to shipping a 70 lb motor back to North Carolina and find a different replacement engine. Not sure what I else I can find for $400 for a similar motor.

Both motors are Briggs and Stratton 1650 Series Professional Snow, where the original is Model & Type 21m314-0114E1 and the new one is 21M314-2470F2.

I (hopefully) attached a couple of pictures of the pulleys to show you what I am up against. I've learned a bunch in this process so far, (thanks to this forum) but engine work is out of my wheelhouse, obviously, so I'm wondering what you all may recommend. Thanks again for any help.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ariens pulley 1.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	129.4 KB
ID:	72137   Click image for larger version

Name:	ariens pulley 2.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	132.5 KB
ID:	72145  
LuvSnoTilMar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 01-14-2016, 10:17 PM
Moderator
 
Shryp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 4,159
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 1
Thanks (Received): 197
Likes (Given): 6
Likes (Received): 251
The Harbor Freight 13 HP engines come with a 1" shaft and are only around $350 if you catch the right sale.

3/4" pulleys can be had online for $10-15 each, but the double pulley for the augers might be hard to find.

That luck sucks. Definitely pay attention to crankshaft diameter in the future.

For a lot of engines from the same family it is possible to change parts like crankshafts, camshafts and front covers. It might be possible to put the old crank in the new engine. That is dependent on how damaged the old one is though.

Please direct all snow blower questions to the forums and not to me with PMs.
Shryp is offline  
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 2 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Thanks LuvSnoTilMar thanked for this post
Likes 43128, LuvSnoTilMar liked this post
post #3 of 13 Old 01-14-2016, 10:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,423
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 5
Thanks (Received): 112
Likes (Given): 13
Likes (Received): 293
I think I would be inclined to try option 1 first. Pulleys are not all that expensive, and you might get lucky locally and find what you need. That might be quickest and cheapest.

What is the depth of that built in key? Is it possible its deep enough that it would make it through the 1/8 thickness of the adapter, and into the crank keyway so you wouldn't need the step key? Check the width of the keyway in the new crank to see if it matches the width of the key in the pulley

Can the place you got the engine supply the correct version with the crank you need? How much is shipping?

Machining out the built in key might work, but they also have to cut a new one to fit the sleeve stepped key. Maybe its the photos, but the holes don't look like the would come out perfectly round after machining, the shape near the keys looks a bit off round. Maybe get a quote, so you can find out if its possible, and then you know what the three options are cost wise. Maybe get the same shop to quote on making you a set of matching pulleys with the correct shaft size, if you cannot find them online. Be a great project for the shop apprentice

Work fascinates me.
I can watch somebody work for hours...
2008 Craftsman 944.528391 (It's a Husqvarna ST227P)
27", B&S 305cc 13.5 ft/lb Torque 9.5 hp

Last edited by skutflut; 01-14-2016 at 10:43 PM.
skutflut is offline  
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 1 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Thanks LuvSnoTilMar thanked for this post
Likes LuvSnoTilMar liked this post
post #4 of 13 Old 01-14-2016, 10:59 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Newington, CT
Posts: 2,029
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 32
Thanks (Received): 92
Likes (Given): 446
Likes (Received): 148
i would go with a 420cc predator engine. should be a direct swap
43128 is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 01-14-2016, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southeast NH
Posts: 3
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 2
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 2
Likes (Received): 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shryp View Post
That luck sucks. Definitely pay attention to crankshaft diameter in the future.

For a lot of engines from the same family it is possible to change parts like crankshafts, camshafts and front covers. It might be possible to put the old crank in the new engine. That is dependent on how damaged the old one is though.
Ha, thanks. Pretty sure I'll never buy another engine without checking the crankshaft first. Definitely a dumb mistake!

I did start going down the road of taking the old crankshaft out to put in the new engine. A bit more background is required here...the previous owner (my father in law) never changed/added oil to the blower, hence the blown engine. He was told the engine was blown, specifically blew a rod. So, with that in mind we decided that trying to switch the crankshafts would result in finding out it was damaged from the blown engine, it would not be a direct replacement, or it was a just a bad idea to begin with . Anyhow, my main question would be on that front, is getting into that area a bad idea in terms of making that engine any more un-usable than it already is? What about voiding any warranty the new B&S motor has?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skutflut View Post
Can the place you got the engine supply the correct version with the crank you need? How much is shipping?

Machining out the built in key might work, but they also have to cut a new one to fit the sleeve stepped key. Maybe its the photos, but the holes don't look like the would come out perfectly round after machining, the shape near the keys looks a bit off round. Maybe get a quote, so you can find out if its possible, and then you know what the three options are cost wise. Maybe get the same shop to quote on making you a set of matching pulleys with the correct shaft size, if you cannot find them online. Be a great project for the shop apprentice
I assumed returning the engine would be cost-prohibitive after the $50 I paid for shipping, but after double checking the place I purchased, Jack's Small Engines (jackssmallengines.com), returning is apparently not an option at all: "Engines
Engines are sold as final sale (not returnable). Please allow a customer service representative to assist you in this kind of purchase in order to guarantee that you are receiving the correct product."

Thanks for the advice on asking a machine shop to actually build(?) a matching pulley set, that may be an interesting thing to throw at them. I've actually never interacted with a machine shop in this fashion before so I'll add this to the learning moments I'm experiencing .
LuvSnoTilMar is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 01-15-2016, 12:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Illinois
Posts: 49
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 2
Thanks (Received): 2
Likes (Given): 5
Likes (Received): 5
I wish I knew why everyone is so in love with these Predators. I would not have anything to do with one. All (conventional, domestic) engine manfacturers have made several variations of every engine they have ever made. Crank differences, 2:1 extended cam (or not), reduction gear, different throttle/governor setups, tapered shaft, splined shaft, threaded shaft (for pumps) and more possibilities. so you gotta watch that stuff. often you can swap parts from the old engine to the replacement so that it works properly.

I have made other engines work in place of originals in about every way imaginable, often what engine I transplant depends on what I have laying around. I have swapped pulleys, had pulleys rebored and rekeyed, swapped crankshafts from old engine to new engine, removed crankshafts and had them remachined to the configuration I need to work with the original pulleys, and a couple of other methods. It depends on the machine and what is available to repower at any given time. One thing that I never do, is to make an engine swap look like a cobble job. When I am done, I do all I can to make it look like it came that way from new.
I usually try though to find another engine of the same brand, at least as what came off.
dodgetrucker is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 01-15-2016, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southeast NH
Posts: 3
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 2
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 2
Likes (Received): 0
@dodgetrucker Thanks for replying to the thread! For better or worse, I'm not able to switch to Predator unless I eat 100% the cost of the B&S engine I bought. So, fortunately we don't have to debate the pros/cons of the Predator engine.

With that said, with your experiences, what is your opinion on the better of three options: new pulleys; old pulleys, machined; or crankshaft swap?

Thanks!
LuvSnoTilMar is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 01-15-2016, 12:28 AM
Senior Member
 
GustoGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,485
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 47
Thanks (Received): 74
Likes (Given): 65
Likes (Received): 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSnoTilMar View Post
@dodgetrucker Thanks for replying to the thread! For better or worse, I'm not able to switch to Predator unless I eat 100% the cost of the B&S engine I bought. So, fortunately we don't have to debate the pros/cons of the Predator engine.

With that said, with your experiences, what is your opinion on the better of three options: new pulleys; old pulleys, machined; or crankshaft swap?

Thanks!
New steel pulleys with a locking set screw can be bought for a reasonable price. I did not use the original pulleys from the original engines on either snow blower and "No I did not Cobble the job either since I used high quality steel pulleys most likely of a higher quality than what was originally on the engines." Belts and pulleys are not too hard to align just use a strait edge. I seen a guy in a Youtube video who welded the stock pulley to his lock screw pulley to extend out the reach of his PTO on the replacement engine to the same reach as the original.

Last edited by GustoGuy; 01-15-2016 at 12:32 AM.
GustoGuy is online now  
post #9 of 13 Old 01-15-2016, 05:52 AM
Moderator
 
Shryp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 4,159
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 1
Thanks (Received): 197
Likes (Given): 6
Likes (Received): 251
When the rod broke did it punch a hole in the block? The old engine might be fixable if all it needs is a rod.

Please direct all snow blower questions to the forums and not to me with PMs.
Shryp is offline  
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Likes Kiss4aFrog liked this post
post #10 of 13 Old 01-15-2016, 07:55 AM
Senior Member
 
CarlB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 718
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 3
Thanks (Received): 32
Likes (Given): 3
Likes (Received): 74
in the past i have made adapters from a piece of 3/4" black iron pipe the i cut a slot in for the key way. While not beautiful it did work fine and cost nothing to build. I also had to modify a piece of key stock as the grove in the pulley was larger then the pulley in the crankshaft but grinding the key was easy.
CarlB is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome