Toro Power Clear with HF Predator 212cc Engine? - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 7 Old 01-22-2017, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 1
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 2
Toro Power Clear with HF Predator 212cc Engine?

Hello,

I'm a newer member, not sure if this is my first or second post as I created the account some time ago, but never really used it, mostly lurking. Anyway, I like to work on small engines especially lawnmowers and snowthrowers. I work on them for recreation, as a side business buying/selling/repairing them and I also get to teach my students about how internal combustion engines work by having them tear down engines I find for free.

As for snowblowers, specifically single stage, Toro has just gotten their design right. They are pretty much exclusively what I look for single stage blowers just from my personal experiences with them. I have owned and sold many CCR 2450/3650, 421,621s, and 210/221s. They seem to work the best for the very densely populated Northern NJ area in which I live in. Usually everyone around here uses them to clear narrow driveways, and small sidewalks.

So on to the actual reason for the thread. I just picked up a Toro Power Clear 421 with Loncin OHV engine on for $20. I wasn't sure of the condition of the engine as the seller just said 'the recoil wasn't working'. It was equipped with the quick shoot chute control which that in itself was worth the $20 for me. So the engine will only turn 180 degrees than it's metal on metal sounding internally. I'm not sure what is getting caught or the history of this engine. I drained the oil, removed spark plug, PB blasted in the spark plug hole and it's still getting caught up. From what I read online Loncin engine parts aren't easy to find, and I'm not sure what else I'll find when I open it up, not to mention the history of it.

Without wanting to have the snowblower sit for parts, or parting it out, I'm now wondering if the Predator 212cc OHV horizontal shaft engine would bolt up to the Power Clear snowblower? It seems incredibly similar in design as the Loncin, if not just rebranded. Looking at the schematics I 'believe' it will work, since it's essentially putting the same engine on it, just relabeled.

There are a couple things I'd need to swap out to fit the Power Clear design such as the exhaust, air inbox around the carb, fuel tank, lines, etc. I'm capable of doing that stuff. The things that concern me is if it will mount to the Power Clear frame (2 bolts on bottom, 4 bolts on the side around the pulley. I'd also have to look into the throttle, as the Toro doesn't have a throttle lever.

So has anyone tried this swap? I can buy a Loncin 163cc engine online, but the site I found it for was $150 plus $30 shipping which doesn't make it worth it to me. I'm sure the Predator would be fine for me, especially since this machine can be loaned to a co-worker or family member for upcoming snow storms. Everything else on the actual Toro snowthrower looks fine, it's just a little dirty. Scrapper bar, and paddles seem fine, I would just need some missing hardware for the front shroud and chute.

I've seen lots of guys online put these predator engines on two stage machines which seems easier since there is a lot more room, and no actual covers on them.

Any thoughts or problems with my plan, please let me know. I do want to visit Harbor Freight and study the engine a little more to see if I see any other problems.

Thanks in advance
JaCkaL829 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 Old 01-22-2017, 11:40 PM
Senior Member
 
dbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,500
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 32
Thanks (Received): 135
Likes (Given): 201
Likes (Received): 283
I'll be following this to see how (or if) it works out.
Looking at photos of the 163cc engine HERE the exhaust location is going to be a challenge as you said.
dbert is offline  
post #3 of 7 Old 01-23-2017, 06:38 PM
Moderator
 
detdrbuzzard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 42.23n/83.33w/636
Posts: 6,578
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 213
Thanks (Received): 293
Likes (Given): 1655
Likes (Received): 584
the HF motor might be a bit larger and wider than the 163cc motor and the motor mounts might not line up for the 212 motor but you would need to test fit the 212 motor to know

current machines
1-toro2450E-38419. 1-toro3000E-38435. 1-toro 3650E-38445
2-toro 521E-38052. 1-toro xl824pt 38086
1-.............,TORO XL 624ps..............
1-............, TORO XL 824ps..............
william
detdrbuzzard is offline  
post #4 of 7 Old 01-28-2017, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 1
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 2
Here is an update:

I finally had time to get the correct hex socket to remove the 1/8" hex set screw holding the pulley to the shaft. That was the last screw to get the motor completely off the frame. Once I got it out, I measured the output shaft off the existing motor, and went to HF to compare the Predator 212cc engine. In my eyes this is the most crucial part, and it needs to be pretty close to stock. I looked up dimensions online, but didn't get exact numbers.

Needless to say, the HF Predator 212cc engine has a smaller output shaft, than the Loncin 163cc engine in the snowthrower. It was about 1/2" smaller. After thinking about it a while looking at the machine, I determined that difference would be enough to make this setup not work right. The output shaft has to go through the frame, and it looks like the pulley would barely be on the shaft. I'm not sure how reliable that setup would be.

I do tell you this, if that shaft was a little longer, I have no doubt that engine would have worked perfect, although a little modification needed. The exhaust would need to be swapped, the fuel tank would need to be swapped, the air filter box would need to be swapped, and the pull starter would probably need to be rotated counter clockwise to accommodate the opening.

I'm not going to lie, I'm a little bummed it doesn't seem to work. I think it would be a good swap and essentially it would be a Toro Power Clear 721 with the quick shoot. I did notice while looking at the Predator engine at HF it did have a sticker on it saying Loncin. I guess there only modification to make it a "Toro Premium" engine is the extra 1/2" on the output shaft.

Oh well, I removed the quick shoot system, and put it on a recently acquired Toro 210r, essentially making a 221r. That was worth the $20 I guess, and now I'll just keep it as a spare from my 3650 I've had good luck with the R-Teks in the past, although I'm not fond of the stinky smell

I am keeping all the parts from the salvage 421, if an engine pops up from a wrecked blower it'll be going on it since it's in nice shape.
JaCkaL829 is offline  
Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes, 0 Dislikes
Likes Grunt liked this post
post #5 of 7 Old 02-02-2017, 07:48 AM
Senior Member
 
LouC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 151
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 1
Thanks (Received): 3
Likes (Given): 2
Likes (Received): 16
I have seen that 163 cc engine for sale on one of the sites that sells new engines; but of course a lot more than the predator. I'm wondering if the Briggs Rtek will fit my '98 3000 GTS. In case I ever have to replace the Suzuki 47p. I do know the Rtek was used in models made after mine with the same frame

1998 Toro 3000 GTS with Suzuki 47p 2 cycle
LouC is online now  
post #6 of 7 Old 11-04-2017, 04:10 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 0
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 0
I'm trying to see if this will work on a 721. These have a 212cc engine as OEM. Just trying to compare shaft dimensions before making the plunge on a new project. I know this is an old thread, but I'd like to stay in touch in case you're trying again this year.
bryanska is offline  
post #7 of 7 Old 11-23-2017, 05:43 AM
Junior Member
 
Cinci5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hamburg, NY
Posts: 14
Post Thanks / Like
Thanks (Given): 0
Thanks (Received): 2
Likes (Given): 0
Likes (Received): 3
Try some Klotz 2 cycle oil smells great

1993 8/24 Power Shift
2003 10/28 Power Shift
2003 CCR3650
2000 CCR Powerlite E
"50yrs" a Toro man
Cinci5 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome