Toro CCR 450 seized engine question - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
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post #1 of 35 Old 10-13-2017, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Toro CCR 450 seized engine question

I recently picked up a unique Toro CCR 450 with a Tecumseh LH195 (I think) that was sitting on the curb, its essentially a 38586. The recoil was stuck, so i managed to free it by squirting some PB blaster in the spark plug hole and putting a torque wrench on the crank bolt and gently rocking it back and forth. I did get it started... for about 3 seconds and then it stopped and locked up again. I was wondering what might have caused it to seize originally and the second time after i freed it... the engine was full of oil when i found it seized. If i'm able to get the engine out I want to take it apart out of curiosity, see whats going on.
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post #2 of 35 Old 10-13-2017, 08:31 PM
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I recently picked up a unique Toro CCR 450 with a Tecumseh LH195 (I think) that was sitting on the curb, its essentially a 38586. The recoil was stuck, so i managed to free it by squirting some PB blaster in the spark plug hole and putting a torque wrench on the crank bolt and gently rocking it back and forth. I did get it started... for about 3 seconds and then it stopped and locked up again. I was wondering what might have caused it to seize originally and the second time after i freed it... the engine was full of oil when i found it seized. If i'm able to get the engine out I want to take it apart out of curiosity, see whats going on.
Piston Rings? Any smoke when it ran? Maybe 3 seconds too short to see much. All that Blaster would smoke anyway I suppose. Any clanking noises?
Cylinder rust or debris? Especially if it sat in the rain for years without moving the piston with no plug in it.

Last edited by unknown1; 10-13-2017 at 08:39 PM.
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post #3 of 35 Old 10-13-2017, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stuart80112 View Post
Piston Rings? Any smoke when it ran? Maybe 3 seconds too short to see much. All that Blaster would smoke anyway I suppose.
Cylinder rust or debris?
Well it did smoke, but the choke was on so that was expected. It wasn't anything excessive actually, i even squirted some oil into the cylinder while i worked it on and off for 2 days. There wasn't any clanking that i noticed... but then again, 3 seconds isn't that long, no grinding metal on metal sound. I did manage to get it unstuck again, but don't dare start it. At a certain point turning the crank i can hear what i assume is the rod possibly moving... my knowledge is very limited in this case, I've only cleaned carbs up to this point.

Last edited by TheFanMan; 10-13-2017 at 08:43 PM.
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post #4 of 35 Old 10-13-2017, 08:53 PM
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Well it did smoke, but the choke was on so that was expected. It wasn't anything excessive actually, i even squirted some oil into the cylinder while i worked it on and off for 2 days. There wasn't any clanking that i noticed... but then again, 3 seconds isn't that long, no grinding metal on metal sound. I did manage to get it unstuck again, but don't dare start it. At a certain point turning the crank i can hear what i assume is the rod possibly moving... my knowledge is very limited in this case, I've only cleaned carbs up to this point.
Well I'm only 3 videos ahead of you on the engine internals. I'm inclined to agree that running it may cause damage until you nail down what's going on. (Hence the question right?)
This might be your chance to whip off your first head and take a look-see. Nothing to lose if you watch a few videos first. Just a gasket and torque-wrench to put it back. Let's hope someone may have a few better ideas first though. It was a freebie. Great opportunity to learn a bit more. I dismantled an engine that threw a rod just to get that hands-on feel. Maybe I'll rebuild it too just to see how that goes.
I'll be interested to see what people suggest. Carburetors get a bit boring once you've nailed them. Great place to start though...if you screw up... pay $10 and get another.

EDIT: IF you crank it by hand then .. yes... the piston goes up and down and the rod does the rod-thing .. the valves do the valve-thing ..but they should be fairly silent. If you hear noises then I'd like to know what is making that noise before starting it again. Just by knowing what's in an engine I'd think what can possibly make a noise like that. Grabbing a thought from thin air I might wonder if the connecting rod is loose. But these are just wild thoughts that makes it all fun as you triage and reverse-engineer. Engines aren't all that complicated when you stop and think about it.
You can pick up 95% of the knowledge in a couple of weeks. The next 5% takes 50 years. I think that's why the most experienced people still hang around... they always pick up a trick or two 99.56% and counting.... no-one can get to 100 :-)

Last edited by unknown1; 10-13-2017 at 09:32 PM.
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post #5 of 35 Old 10-13-2017, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stuart80112 View Post
Well I'm only 3 videos ahead of you on the engine internals. I'm inclined to agree that running it may cause damage until you nail down what's going on. (Hence the question right?)
This might be your chance to whip off your first head and take a look-see. Nothing to lose if you watch a few videos first. Just a gasket and torque-wrench to put it back. Let's hope someone may have a few better ideas first though. It was a freebie. Great opportunity to learn a bit more. I dismantled an engine that threw a rod just to get that hands-on feel. Maybe I'll rebuild it too just to see how that goes.
I'll be interested to see what people suggest. Carburetors get a bit boring once you've nailed them. Great place to start though...if you screw up... pay $10 and get another.
Ya, I would really like to avoid damaging it... if i can repair it for not a crazy amount i want to try (ill need an in-lb torque wrench), in any case it would be a nice learning experience. I'm only thinking about going this far b/c this snow thrower is actually a prototype unit. Likely not too much different from a Toro 421QZE with the Tecumseh engine... but, its a prototype... that's just neat. Most of the bucket would definitely need to be sanded down and painted, but that's not a big deal to me, time i have.
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post #6 of 35 Old 10-13-2017, 09:18 PM
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Ya, I would really like to avoid damaging it... if i can repair it for not a crazy amount i want to try (ill need an in-lb torque wrench), in any case it would be a nice learning experience. I'm only thinking about going this far b/c this snow thrower is actually a prototype unit. Likely not too much different from a Toro 421QZE with the Tecumseh engine... but, its a prototype... that's just neat. Most of the bucket would definitely need to be sanded down and painted, but that's not a big deal to me, time i have.
A word for the wise... my harbor freight torque wrench doesn't click and if you read the reviews that should not surprise me. When it's time to put the head back that feels a bit spooky. That's where the experience kicks in. Some folks can probably tell torque to within a few percent just by feeling the stress on their muscles. But that's the 50 year thing I was talking about in the edit to my previous reply.
Go for it!! You know you want to. BTW HF also sell those stress gauges that fit to any wrench and turn them into torque wrenches. Not tried one.. if you DO let us know how that shakes out. Grab an engine manual, learn the zig-zag pattern and just hope HF didn't sell you a lemon. If you've got a spare $2300 lying around.. buy a Snap-on ;-)

Last edited by unknown1; 10-13-2017 at 09:50 PM.
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post #7 of 35 Old 10-13-2017, 09:29 PM
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By the way.. after you've watched that video.. come back and tell me that pulling off the head won't tell me much about the rod ;-)
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post #8 of 35 Old 10-13-2017, 09:37 PM
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...but, its a prototype... that's just neat. ...
That's twice today! Did you see the post with a sticker that says "Not for Retail Sale" or something like that... you guys have some of the rarest machines! Yes that is neat! Don't break it.
Let's have some pictures of that prototype :-)

Last edited by unknown1; 10-13-2017 at 09:45 PM.
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post #9 of 35 Old 10-13-2017, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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lol
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post #10 of 35 Old 10-13-2017, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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That's twice today! Did you see the post with a sticker that says "Not for Retail Sale" or something like that... you guys have some of the rarest machines! Yes that is neat! Don't break it :-)
Really!... No, didn't see that post, i'm gonna go look for it now. And yes, it has a sticker that says "Not for Retail Sale" on the frame, the engine also says "Sample Engine" on the sticker with "EXE" as the model. Although it does say 195cc, so i'm 99.9% sure its a LH195.
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