Im going to be disassembling one tomorrow and can let you know if nobody else has responded by then.

That's 1 heck of a deal for the mower deck.

On a side note, the Preditor moter won't allow for the original snow shoot control arm so you will need to get another one with the split so it can go lower then the carb and muffler.

I'm putting the Preditor 224cc (Red) on the one im repairing now.

 

Appreciate the response.
the best part is that the second mower deck looks like it was never used! It is for a later twin stick machine, and it is very clean and still has paint on the underside and even the blade!
I do know about the chute rod not working with the predator engine. The parts machine I picked up is an 8 hp model and that has a different setup and additional bracket/u joint in the rod so I am hoping to be able to utilize those parts on this one

 

Is the second one a 28" clipper deck ? If so that's not of Ariens manufacture, is shaft drive, and utilizes the twin stick style clutch remote to operate the pulley/blade brake safety system. They lack the flex n float feature of the 26" decks, They are of Canadian origin.

One other important piece of advice... avoid lofting the deck attachment by use of the handlebars unless it's an emergency situation. Also avoid crashing it into trees, shrubs, posts, and concrete turf edges. The nature of the Ariens deck with flex n float leaves it with weak point on the yoke weldment that Ariens never fully welded across, subsequently they can developed hairline cracks and fully broken welds at that point. A tell tale sign is if your deck droops at the back edge and feels overly floppy when you apply pressure down then up at the rear of the handle bars. Also it will produce an uneven cut quality if the weldment is already damaged. Keep the counter rotation spring in place even if not using a bagger attachment.

The second deck is the same style, just doesnt have the disengagement lever down on the deck and it doesn't have a coupling on the gearbox. It has a pulley which im assuming is what would be used on a twin stick machine. Either way, it looks like it’s never been used. I dont have any good pictures of it but if you look closely you can see the pulley and lack of engagement lever.

 

The second deck is the same style, just doesnt have the disengagement lever down on the deck and it doesn't have a coupling on the gearbox. It has a pulley which im assuming is what would be used on a twin stick machine. Either way, it looks like it’s never been used. I dont have any good pictures of it but if you look closely you can see the pulley and lack of engagement lever.

View attachment 241566

Oh OK, yeah that's a 924 deck, which I also have one of....those use a pulley PTO plus the 924 style double sheave on the engine......otherwise they are identical and most other mower parts are interchangeable, but the same basic problem is present on all the flex mower decks.

There was some guy , I think on ebay, he doesn't rebuild the H70, he uses the H40 or H50 and bores them to H70Spec, then with added shipping the shortblock (you assemble with the new parts provided) is about the same price as a 224 predator.

I've also put a 220cc (8hp Kubota clone) on a 10000, and they will kick a little better than a H70, especially in the snow, but the difference is negligible for variable speed operation ( which the trak team and H70 is pretty much designed for from the jump) plus it made the chute control rod unusable without very convoluted rigging. And the clutch didnt work the same because it was impossible to match crank positions. Not worth the time In my opinion whe the flexible H motors bolt right on without issue. (By the way, a large block 4hp H40 will still power the deck and vac attathment, easily, without protest.)
But so many have done clone swaps and are happy, so to each his own, at least these relics are still being used for useful work.

(I may one day try to swap in a Yamaha 250 Gen motor (same upright layout as an H motor), I have lying around, onto an old ML40 frame, just to see how that goes)

 

Fantastic score! I've done that repair but can't remember enough of it to really help. All I remember is finagling the drive plate with its shaft attached out and back in around the hex shaft was like threading a needle using chopsticks. I think I unbolted the friction wheel from its hub to get enough clearance. Also might've disconnected the hub linkages so the hub could slide farther out of the way than it would've normally.

No one will criticize you for Predator converting these machines, fans of them are just happy to know they're being saved. I can assure you here and now you'll be glad you did it and it will be a terrific two season unit. Three seasons if you find the yard vac attachment.

 

Thanks for the reply!
Sounds like maybe I need to remove some more pieces to gain some additional room. I’ll check into this next time i’m at the shop.
I have other trac-teams that I will keep original with the tecumseh engine. I am the third owner of my 1971, and it started 1st or 2nd every time and that tecumseh never missed a beat all winter…the worst winter we have seen in my area in a long time. But, it does need a refresh as it burns quite a lot of oil and it just needs an overall refresh. Thats another reason I want to get this predator unit up and running so I have something I can rely on while I get the other one up in tip top shape!
Btw, I do have a lawn vac attachment so this will truly be an all seasons machine 😁

 

Just rub that in too....

 

I got that with a late 60’s snowblower as well as 2 reel mowers. I believe it was the guys grandfather’s machine he bought new. Poor thing lived a hard life, and is pretty well wore out. I was able to get the snowblower running and got to try it out the night I brought her home. I cant believe the engine started and ran so well, it’s in dire need of a valve job and oil is blowing out the breather. I haven't been able to try out any of the attachments yet. But I did bring home another machine for free that I plan to take both of these and make 1 good one.

Here is a short clip of me trying out the blower that night.

 

With that many hours on it the valves are likely due but anything blowing out of the breather indicates it's time to re-ring it. Or Predator swap it:

 

No doubt it needs a full rebuild. But that's not the original engine so I wouldn't put my effort into that one. I picked up this machine and I will take the 2 and make one good one.

This was a free curbside find. Pretty rough but it has good bones and I know it will make a good solid base for a rebuild

 

Good bones indeed. Great score.

 

Update:
I was able to get the bearing housing removed!
I removed a few more pieces and made it a lot easier to not only remove that assembly, but also insert the engine mounting bolts. As you can see the predator engine is mounted! I have to strip the parts I need from the parts snowblower and then reassemble everything. Unfortunately the bushings for the drive axle are well worn so I cant in good conscience reassemble it as is, so hopefully the parts machine has some good replacements otherwise i believe they’re available new. Stay tuned for more updates!

 

That thing has found the right owner.

 

I've retrofitted many of those older ones with the predator swaps. Made an adapter like this to utilize the original chute rods. Stock was 1/2" X 1" channel, used as bottom rail on wrought-iron railings. These were the only pixx I could find on my phone. And you need to relocate the eyebolt to outside of left handle to work.
Also I believe the pulley with your clutch-dog from your transmission assembly is a LEFT hand thread, but I've forgotten soo much getting older 😢. Hopefully Jackmels or another member will chime in on the thread direction.

 

I don't recall any left-hand threaded hardware anywhere on these things but my memory is often prone to lapses. Of course I don't recall the lapses either.....

 

Was a LOT of fabrication and time, but I converted several of that model to a two hand safety control setup for the auger. Here's a few pixx if you want to undertake the task. Think the belt guards were from an older MTD / Craftsman snowblower.

 

I built this tool to make removal easier for the pulley / clutch dog assembly. Just use your impact gun and it zips right off.

 

I defer to the guy who makes welds like that, and buys Predators in bulk.

 

I was having fun rebuilding snowblowers in the off season from funny car duties. The guy at harbor freight would stop me when he saw me looking at engines on the shelf.....
" Please wait here, I'll bring out your engines from the back " , that way I won't have to bend down and refill the shelf. Was kinda funny, think I went through 50 or so engines. I started saving the air filters after I threw out soo many, still have a bag of them.

 

@Shaw,

All that nice work, I would certainly have put on some XTrac snow tires .....

 

That was a few years ago these were built, didn't know about those tires. They now go on everything I own. Great tires !!!

 

Benedeem424, I have one of those chute brackets extra if you want it. PM me your address information and I'll send it to you, no charge.

 

Thanks for the offer, I already have a plan for modifying the chute control but I greatly appreciate that. Your idea for a tool to remove the coupling is great and I may have to make my own. Your work on these old beasts is impressive. I will be keeping the stock pulley sizes, but the predator engine does spin a little faster than a stock Tecumseh so that will help a bit with the throwing distance! I am swapping in the 224 engine btw.

 

You can put a smaller pulley on the bottom, or larger one on the engine to speed things up. I've experimented with many sizes and setups, but it will also change your transmission speed on this type of machine. Tractor supply has them in stock, I'd suggest 8" on bottom pulley. Any smaller will make travel speeds too fast, 212cc engine will just purr along with pulley upgrade.
But........ if you use the mower attachment it will also be faster, something to think about. Here's one of my experimented machines, turned out to throw snow a country mile, but had to run with it because travel speed was too fast.

 

Not much I can do during the week at home, but I did bring the bottom guard from the shop to clean up all of the built up grease. Some degreaser and a drill brush and that 50 year old buildup was no match! While this is pretty minuscule progress, when I finally get to head to the shop it makes my time there more productive.

before

After

 

looks good .... a bit of sanding, primer, paint and it will be protected and new again.

 

Turf tires were always good enough for me as well, with a locked axle and scraper bar and skids set correctly.

 

WOW 😮 .... that's around $8,000.00 min. for new engines ..... hope you're getting good money selling those units.

 

I made about $100 or so for each, not much profit... but I enjoyed the work and helping others. Plus it paid for my experimentation of custom machines I've built. All in and done it was probably a wash, had fun and I've got a few custom machines that are one of a kind.

 

All that work when a proper running H70 makes that mower attachment work great. With the H70, I can dial in the jetting in by sound, feel and without tools as conditions and air density vary throughout the spring, summer and fall , plus it has better remote idle control which I use a lot in the spring and summer.....plus it doesn't interfere with the 73-74 control rods or pulley positioning that affects 10000 series clutch and belt cover operation. Plus the H70 has a toothed flywheel for e-start. The predator is too much work for lesser results IMO, and yes I have cloned swapped a 10000 before....

I would only do a predator again if I had zero choice about the matter, I'd always look for a rebored H shortblock first,

 

While I definitely understand and can appreciate your stance on the original tecumseh, I don’t think rebuilding the original engine is less work than a repower. This swap is easy and under normal circumstances would have been done in a few hours. Had I been a little more careful and taken my time I would have had this up and running months ago. I have several vintage ariens that will remain original with the original tecumseh.

I purchased this machine and attachments together and they were literally dragged from the weeds. It was my intentions to predator swap this from the beginning with the 224 I had waiting on the shelf. I want to run this engine through its paces. I want to know if these engines are as good as everyone says they are. I see a lot on the 212, but not very much on the newer 224. I am going to run the snot out of this thing and see how it holds up long term.

If this engine fails or disappoints, I am not changing or modifying anything that will prevent me from rebuilding the original engine and reinstalling.

My real hobby is vintage ski doos and these snowblowers are more of a distraction to be completely honest 🤣 My all original 1971 3 owner machine needs help and I hope to get started on refreshing that tecumseh later this fall. But with my work schedule and other projects I know the turn around time on that will be longer than I want to be without a vintage sno-thro. This predator swapped 73 will (hopefully) be able to fill in while thats down for repairs.

I do like a nice clean 10000 series with an original engine. But seeing one updated with a modern engine doesn’t hurt my feelings either as long as it wasn't hacked on there.

I picked up an early 10000 series, what I believe to be a 1965. It seems to run really well, but wont really know until I can give it a good once over and try it out. That machine will definitely be kept original…I like all of the subtle differences the early ones had like the round style muffler and sprocket style chute turning crank. I hope to make a thread on that once I have a chance to work on it…have to wrap up a few projects first. The list is never ending!

Thanks for the perspective. I can guarantee you will see an original trac-team using all the attachments as it was designed (someday). But for now, I work to get this predator ariens out of the shop and out working!

 

Coca-cola cans are aluminum ...

 

Hmm, you dont say. I never knew that

 

Yeah, awhile back I picked up a brand new clipper deck from a guy here in CT that had a whole pallet for dirt cheap. Went on one of my ST824 Ariens series perfectly. I use it all the time as my walk behind mower now. I only use my rider for leaves or if I am very lazy ....

p.s. ... just remember that running in summer requires the heater box removal and installing an air filter and of course turf tires for mowing ......

 

That's the one, I still have one in the box, one on a 924 that needs help, and another semi hooked onto a 926 frame for mock up. Those were only really sold in New England and Eastern Canada. I see your tall turf tires.

If I remember correctly, did you get that from Connectucut guy.?....if so, he gave me the rest of the pallet and I didn't really want 3.
It might be nice to do a pro/con comparo of attachment style walk behinds....I just used the Troy flex 28" today while the 10000 is out of commission for the rest of the season. Some things I like, but they could have done so much more to make it better for the operator.

 

Yeah, mine works flawless, zero turn, six speeds on the clutch with reverse .... very easy and I love the 6 adjustable heights.

 

Yup, shaft drive, fabricated deck, aside from lube and blade sharpening, cleaning, they really are maintenance free lifetime units if you keep them rust free.

 

Ok, so I finally have an update on the Ariens predator swap. I will share some pictures and tell the story the best I can.

I received the new bushing and bearings I needed off Ebay. The bearings for the main pulley support were aftermarket(probably made of chinesium) and the bushing for the axle flange were NOS Ariens part # 55030.

With new parts in hand, I began disassembling the main pulley support. The original plan was to fabricate a tool to spin off the pulley/coupler but just wasn't able to come up with something with materials I had on hand. With the help of my Dad, the pulley came off without any damage to it or the coupler. With a couple good whacks with a soft face hammer, the shaft and drive plate were then removed from the housing.

New bearings were installed and the assembly was reassembled minus the main pulley. I opted to leave that out because it would make reinstalling the engagement arm/pulley easier.

From there, I installed the housing back into the machine. This was a big moment as the project kinda derailed when I broke this part. It was a great feeling finally heading in the right direction.

Next I worked on swapping out the axle bushings. Removal was easy, just found the right sized socket and knocked them out. Installation was easy as well, just being careful not to damage the new bushings (too badly anyways ).

The new bushings really tightened up the axle and it was well worth the $5 per bushing and I felt really good about that. I wish I took more pictures of the process, but I was in full work mode and did not take the time to photograph or video the process. I get the axle installed and then go to spin the pulley on and look at the front of the machine and realize I made an error 🤦‍♂️ I forgot to install the engagement arm/pulley which is now about 10 times harder with the bearing housing and axle reinstalled. 😩 It was at this point that I was contemplating pushing the whole unit into the creek and finding something else to work on...I do NOT like working on snowblowers. There is not much room to work, you are hunched over, twisted, contorted, and just overall not enjoyable for me. In hindsight, with the snowblower attachment installed and the whole unit tipped up into the service position it probably makes things a lot more enjoyable and easier. But anyways, after a while of bending, twisting, some colorful language, and 1/16th of a wrench turn at time, the engagement assembly was reinstalled. Then came the front pulley, followed by the tires, and I ended the day marrying the tractor and mower attachment once again. Here are a few pictures of where she stands right now. I ran out of time, but the next step will be first start, engine break in, and then first test mow!

The shop is still a mess, I have to head back over there and clean up. I had to switch gears and get ready for a vintage snowmobile show that I was attending the next day. This was a good learning experience for me. I learned that I HATE working on these things I'll be the first in line when it comes to using one, but dread fixing them up. This thing fought me at every step, and I mean literally every nut and bolt fought me. But, it's back together and ready for a first start up which feels pretty darn good. Hopefully with the brand new engine and new parts installed everything works as intended. I am figuring I will need to put a new belt on the mower and tractor itself but hoping the ones on it are good enough for a test run at least. I am anticipating having to make some adjustments to the drive system but that's to be expected when you drag one of these out of the weeds. The mowing season is winding down here, but I hope I can get a few hours of run time on the new engine before switched back to the snowblower attachment. My family puts on a pretty elaborate Halloween walk for the community, so I figure that will be the perfect opportunity to put the ole Ariens mower to the test getting around all of the displays and decorations. Thanks for reading, it's certainly taken a lot longer to get to this point than I would have liked, but life always gets in the way of these fun projects. I am hoping to get this thing fired up during the week after work, with the first real test being next weekend. I will update the thread when that happens. Have a good one!