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I'm new to the forum, so thx in advance for any help! I'm about ready to buy an Ariens 24Sho Platinum EFI. Any comments on the EFI dependability or service?
 

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:welcome: aboard!

I have the carbureted version. It's a nice unit had/have some issues with the fuel tank and gas cap some leaking and an overcomplicated fuel filler neck assembly. That has been addressed and corrected on the current model. It is a powerul, feature rich machine. There may have been some starting issues with the EFI, last year per some of the reviews out there. It's in its second year now, last year a lot of potential buyers took a wait and see approach because the technology was new to snowblowers. While not too popular on the forum at this point, actual owners should be weighing in soon enough.
 

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Stay Away from the EFI. Carbs work Fine, and are User Friendly.
 

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There have been some problems with the EFI system as used by Ariens. I can't find the thread where I read about a couple of people having problems with them. How wide spread it is will be hard to tell as we don't know how many of them Ariens has sold compared to the number of problems. If I had the money to spend on a new snowblower I wouldn't hesitate to buy one since they've now been out a year. For me regardless of how simple carbs are to work on and how we all know all the problems you can have with carbs my faith in new technology tells me EFI will be better. There will always be rational from people my age (70) and younger who won't embrace new technology until it's old technology. So be it, If I take the risk on new tech and get burned, c'est la vie. If it works for me, great! If it works for you even better!
 

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There have been some problems with the EFI system as used by Ariens. I can't find the thread where I read about a couple of people having problems with them. How wide spread it is will be hard to tell as we don't know how many of them Ariens has sold compared to the number of problems. If I had the money to spend on a new snowblower I wouldn't hesitate to buy one since they've now been out a year. For me regardless of how simple carbs are to work on and how we all know all the problems you can have with carbs my faith in new technology tells me EFI will be better. There will always be rational from people my age (70) and younger who won't embrace new technology until it's old technology. So be it, If I take the risk on new tech and get burned, c'est la vie. If it works for me, great! If it works for you even better!
There is no advantage to EFI on a snowblower. I love EFI for cars, for a number of reasons, or equipment that works in different environments under constantly changing loads. The operational circumstances a snowblower, lawnmower, small engines in general, work within very defined parameters.

For snowblowers it introduces a level of unnecessary complexity, points of failure, and circumstances that aren't necessary.

And it's not an Ariens thing, it's an industry thing. Ariens isn't making the EFI system, and it's totally possible they all manufacturers are using the same one or two.
 

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Just as Tecumseh was, now its Briggs, Honda and LCT. We will continue to see the fuel systems change on small engines.
Auto chokes on small engines were a stop gap fix.
Emissions compliance is the big thing...and complying. Canada (Ontario) is about to embark on a "minimum 10%" while here in BC we now see as much as 15%.
We can grumble and fight it, but in 10-15 years or less it will be a reality...just like some of us remember when a 350 was a 350, and it had a 2 or 4 barrel.
The big question is do you want to get in on the first, second or third generation....
For us old guys, until they all blow up there will always be a few Snow King engines around...
 

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Just as Tecumseh was, now its Briggs, Honda and LCT. We will continue to see the fuel systems change on small engines.
Auto chokes on small engines were a stop gap fix.
Emissions compliance is the big thing...and complying. Canada (Ontario) is about to embark on a "minimum 10%" while here in BC we now see as much as 15%.
We can grumble and fight it, but in 10-15 years or less it will be a reality...just like some of us remember when a 350 was a 350, and it had a 2 or 4 barrel.
The big question is do you want to get in on the first, second or third generation....
For us old guys, until they all blow up there will always be a few Snow King engines around...
I've seen a number of threads here about re-jetting a carb and how it totally changed the attitude of the machine. Won't be able to do that with EFI.

I'm not disagreeing it's coming, I just don't think it's necessary, and I don't think people will be happy when the deficiencies are exposed.
 

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I've seen a number of threads here about re-jetting a carb and how it totally changed the attitude of the machine. Won't be able to do that with EFI.

I'm not disagreeing it's coming, I just don't think it's necessary, and I don't think people will be happy when the deficiencies are exposed.
Yoiu dont need to rejet efi
Thats what efi does its always right on the mark
efi produces a stronger flatter torque curve below peak torque ( just what blowers like)
it starts better
the gov is instant which makes the 306cc 30 efi feel like a 369cc without efi i tested one vs a non efi
didnt you say something about have you ever used one before in a prior thread?

That said ill take the carb motor and make it run right
 

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I've seen a number of threads here about re-jetting a carb and how it totally changed the attitude of the machine. Won't be able to do that with EFI.

I'm not disagreeing it's coming, I just don't think it's necessary, and I don't think people will be happy when the deficiencies are exposed.
I have read many articles about 'emissions" improvements, and agree that many wonder why. Increasing the minimum ethanol content in gas is the first, and if I am to believe some of the "rationals" for fuel injection systems this would be one.

I have attached a "joke" I found on line, but wondering if/when we may see such ideas floated by governments.

Ontario requires emissions tests for lawn mowers
 

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I have read many articles about 'emissions" improvements, and agree that many wonder why. Increasing the minimum ethanol content in gas is the first, and if I am to believe some of the "rationals" for fuel injection systems this would be one.

I have attached a "joke" I found on line, but wondering if/when we may see such ideas floated by governments.

Ontario requires emissions tests for lawn mowers
What's ridiculous, is ethanol in gas reduces mileage/efficiency so you wind up burning more gas, making more emissions, what's the net savings.

I'm all for getting emissions as low as possible, but not of the expense of the stated goal of the product, in turn, making the product less efficient.

I would bet emissions testing for small engines is a joke now, but not too far off. There have already been attempts to totally ban gas powered tools, in favor of electric. Just moves the pollution somewhere else.
 

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Yoiu dont need to rejet efi
Thats what efi does its always right on the mark
It certainly should have the ability to always be right. But if it can be programmed to be right, then it can also be programmed to be a little lean.

efi produces a stronger flatter torque curve below peak torque ( just what blowers like)
it starts better
the gov is instant which makes the 306cc 30 efi feel like a 369cc without efi i tested one vs a non efi
didnt you say something about have you ever used one before in a prior thread?

That said ill take the carb motor and make it run right
I'd love to try an EFI engine. Improved governor performance would be nice. You can still have electronically-controlled governors with a carb, though, if you want. My little Honda generator has a carb, but a motor-controlled throttle.

EFI is working very nicely now in cars, and I'm sure that at the outset there was plenty of pushback, carbs are fine, etc. I wouldn't prefer to have the first version of an EFI system, admittedly. But I suspect they'll get better, and work out the kinks.

Eventually we won't have a choice anyhow. If for some reason you preferred flathead blower engines (or points ignition, or anything else that's been replaced), I suspect you don't have many options at the moment. And if you didn't like OHV when they released (flatheads have been good, etc), I dunno, they seem good to me now.

And how many threads do we see about carb problems? Leaking, clogged due to degraded gas, etc. If those discussions could be eliminated, that would be nice. Fixing a carb problem is cheap, if you can get a $15 eBay carb, and if you can diagnose the problem, select the right carb, and know how to install it. But that does not represent the bulk of the population.

And an EFI fix may well be more expensive. And at least for now, there's a battery to maintain. But if EFI problems are less frequent, it might help offset the higher costs when they *do* occur. And I suspect the general public would be happier to have their machines just keep running, even if they don't take all the precautions that people here might. Draining gas at the end of the season, using stabilizer, finding ethanol-free, etc.

Now, if everything suddenly ran great, it would reduce the number of good deals available to those of us willing to work on them, which would be a bummer!
 

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Yoiu dont need to rejet efi
Thats what efi does its always right on the mark
efi produces a stronger flatter torque curve below peak torque ( just what blowers like)
it starts better
the gov is instant which makes the 306cc 30 efi feel like a 369cc without efi i tested one vs a non efi
didnt you say something about have you ever used one before in a prior thread?

That said ill take the carb motor and make it run right
Uh, no . . . .it's always exactly where they programmed it, and if that is either errant, or some BS forced by the EPA, there is very little ability to adjust . . .

Assuming that the fueling curves in the EFI are optimal is a gross assumption I cannot make . . .
 

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It certainly should have the ability to always be right. But if it can be programmed to be right, then it can also be programmed to be a little lean.



I'd love to try an EFI engine. Improved governor performance would be nice. You can still have electronically-controlled governors with a carb, though, if you want. My little Honda generator has a carb, but a motor-controlled throttle.

EFI is working very nicely now in cars, and I'm sure that at the outset there was plenty of pushback, carbs are fine, etc. I wouldn't prefer to have the first version of an EFI system, admittedly. But I suspect they'll get better, and work out the kinks.

Eventually we won't have a choice anyhow. If for some reason you preferred flathead blower engines (or points ignition, or anything else that's been replaced), I suspect you don't have many options at the moment. And if you didn't like OHV when they released (flatheads have been good, etc), I dunno, they seem good to me now.

And how many threads do we see about carb problems? Leaking, clogged due to degraded gas, etc. If those discussions could be eliminated, that would be nice. Fixing a carb problem is cheap, if you can get a $15 eBay carb, and if you can diagnose the problem, select the right carb, and know how to install it. But that does not represent the bulk of the population.

And an EFI fix may well be more expensive. And at least for now, there's a battery to maintain. But if EFI problems are less frequent, it might help offset the higher costs when they *do* occur. And I suspect the general public would be happier to have their machines just keep running, even if they don't take all the precautions that people here might. Draining gas at the end of the season, using stabilizer, finding ethanol-free, etc.

Now, if everything suddenly ran great, it would reduce the number of good deals available to those of us willing to work on them, which would be a bummer!
So true. And even a bit worse, "shade tree mechanics" would need to be retrained. Just as the auto mechanic needs to be more of a "technician" to troubleshoot issues, we will eventually see the shift in small engines. Many say they have little impact on the environment, but in reality, the emissions from small engines are becoming more apparent every day.
In the 70's Popular Mechanic Magazine had an article about "returning oil to the ground"...a then acceptable practice...now look at the regulations on waste oil.
Whether we "want to accept it" or not, one day it will be here...
 

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Yoiu dont need to rejet efi
Thats what efi does its always right on the mark
it depends on who defines what "the mark" is. Some environut bureaucrat at a desk in DC is going to define it much different that say Reher-Morrison, or me.

A machine with a limited defined application environment won't benefit from EFI.
 

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Just as Tecumseh was, now its Briggs, Honda and LCT. We will continue to see the fuel systems change on small engines.
Auto chokes on small engines were a stop gap fix.
Emissions compliance is the big thing...and complying. Canada (Ontario) is about to embark on a "minimum 10%" while here in BC we now see as much as 15%.
We can grumble and fight it, but in 10-15 years or less it will be a reality...just like some of us remember when a 350 was a 350, and it had a 2 or 4 barrel.
The big question is do you want to get in on the first, second or third generation....
For us old guys, until they all blow up there will always be a few Snow King engines around...



"For us old guys, until they all blow up there will always be a few Snow King engines around..."


Amen !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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It certainly should have the ability to always be right. But if it can be programmed to be right, then it can also be programmed to be a little lean.
Define "right". :D Being right includes sensors. IAC, Map or MAF, CTS, MAT, O2, and TPS. Adds a lot of complexity. Not to mention 43lbs of fuel pressure, needing an electric fuel pump.


I'd love to try an EFI engine. Improved governor performance would be nice. You can still have electronically-controlled governors with a carb, though, if you want. My little Honda generator has a carb, but a motor-controlled throttle.
Is governor improvement suffering now? Is this a major problem on small engines? I don't think so. I've never heard of "governor performance". What is that?

All it's doing is metering gas based on what the sensors tell it. Snowblowers, and small engines aren't going to have these complex ECUs and all these sensors. It will be mapped static, what's referred to "OPEN LOOP" in fuel injection terms. So essentially, it is just a complicated carburetor unless they introduce all the sensors.

EFI is working very nicely now in cars, and I'm sure that at the outset there was plenty of pushback, carbs are fine, etc. I wouldn't prefer to have the first version of an EFI system, admittedly. But I suspect they'll get better, and work out the kinks.
Totally different animal. Apples and oranges.
And how many threads do we see about carb problems? Leaking, clogged due to degraded gas, etc. If those discussions could be eliminated, that would be nice. Fixing a carb problem is cheap, if you can get a $15 eBay carb, and if you can diagnose the problem, select the right carb, and know how to install it. But that does not represent the bulk of the population.
If all engines were EFI, how many threads on EFI problems would exist? :D tell ya what, I doubt you'd see a 50 year old EFI engine, 50 years from now.

Injectors clog just like carbs when they aren't treated correctly.

And an EFI fix may well be more expensive. And at least for now, there's a battery to maintain. But if EFI problems are less frequent, it might help offset the higher costs when they *do* occur. And I suspect the general public would be happier to have their machines just keep running, even if they don't take all the precautions that people here might. Draining gas at the end of the season, using stabilizer, finding ethanol-free, etc.

Now, if everything suddenly ran great, it would reduce the number of good deals available to those of us willing to work on them, which would be a bummer!
IF people treat machines the way they treat them today, EFI problems will be as frequent. The only difference is you'll be replacing fuel injectors, instead of carborators.

I may go back into the Fuel Injection business with all the problems that may arise.

There's no difference, the engine doesn't know where the fuel is coming from, injection or carb. All it knows is how much fuel and air is there. There's no power difference, no torque difference, no advantage to fuel injection IN THESE ENGINES!

OK, done whining.
 

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While I'm on a tirade, another thing to consider. An 8 HP engine would require a 4 LB/HR injector, at 90% duty cycle. If we drop it to 50% duty cycle, it would be about 7.5 lbs/hr.

That's a VERY VERY small injector. The hole/holes (depending on the design) are going to microscopic. Keep in mind the absolute smallest ones we see in cars are probably 16 lbs or so.

Those small holes, injectors aren't going to like sitting with gas all summer, and will clog/malfunction. But you'll need a flow bench to know for sure if that's the case. A lot of people will be guessing, and a lot of injectors will be sold as a result.
 

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What's ridiculous, is ethanol in gas reduces mileage/efficiency so you wind up burning more gas, making more emissions, what's the net savings.

I'm all for getting emissions as low as possible, but not of the expense of the stated goal of the product, in turn, making the product less efficient.

I would bet emissions testing for small engines is a joke now, but not too far off. There have already been attempts to totally ban gas powered tools, in favor of electric. Just moves the pollution somewhere else.
They will have to pry those gas powered tools from my cold dead hands!:smile_big:
 
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