Snowblower Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This years winter has been brutal on my old Ariens 10M-L60. Old age has finally caught up with it and I've had a few things going wrong at the worst possible times but finally have this machine's problems narrowed down to just one, and most likely the most challenging.

On this machine there is only 1 lever to engage the augers which also engages the transmission with one handle on the left side controlling the clutch. When I engage the augers and shift to any speed forward or reverse the machine will not move. I do notice the shaft that goes thru the wheel does spin but does not engage the wheel. I did slide the bottom pan off to inspect operation and the friction disc is making good contact with the flywheel and is not slipping and the chains are not broken.

Can someone point me where to look? When I'm checking under there all I see are gears, rods and chains that all seem to be connected and working properly so maybe something stupid as a pin coming loose but I didn't notice anything.

Is there anything in the wheel hub itself that can go wrong?
Thanks for any direction. I will try to add pics of the setup later tonight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
581 Posts
Hey z31kid, you have the "ratchet wheel" option on those babies. I know that they made the solid axle machines like mine a lot easier to move around and gave you the ability to use the other attachments like the lawn mower and leaf vac because the wheels wouldn't be locked together as mine were. I think they were the predecessor to the differential axle seen on later models. They seem pretty involved, and I'm sorry I don't have a lot to offer on how to fix them, but you should be able to slide the whole hub off and swap it as a unit from the other one you have (I think). Another option would be to remove the axle and hubs entirely and swap in a differential axle from a later 60's model. They are on ebay a lot. When I first got mine it had the solid axle without the ratchet wheels and it was a bear to move with those wheels locked together. I did the axle swap and it wasn't too big of a project and its like a different machine.
This is the axle, right, left and differential:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=191517813251

And this is the lockout that goes on the left hub:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=391067499157
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
ditto what they said... pawl springs not working, or the pivot pin the pawl spring engages in the rathet, fell out or broke off

it looks like the pawl springs are broken on the machine that won't engage. my first AMF 3-stage had the same problem. one pawl spring was completely missing, the other was broken in 3 pieces.

take the complete pawl spring/ratchet hub/etc assembly off the other machine, and put it on the one that isn't working correctly.

I actually bought 2 more AMF's fro $50 each, just to get the spare ratcheting wheel mechanisms and pawl springs. they have to be greased up good to not break.

it does make turning a machine easier.
but you could also convert it to a solid axle that turns both wheels all the time.

the pawl springs look like a thin horseshoe and are made of spring steel. I tried to make one out of clothes hanger wire once just for kicks. there was a guy making them and they would last about a year before breaking.



best bet is find spares and stock up on them
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts

the wheels on a pawl spring/hubbed machine, will spin and freewheel like that, freely, when the machine is shut off and still in gear, with the friction disc engaged. what makes them lock is, when the machine is running, the torque hits the hubs and turns them, against the weight and resistance of the machine/tire on the ground, the pawl spring engages the ratchet tooth/gear assembly, by pivoting, then it drives.

if the machine drives and blows snow, and there are no broken parts inside the hubs, just use it, there's nothing wrong with it. it was designed that way to differentiate when turning. if it doesn't work as you say, then take all the stuff off the other old machine in your vid, put it on your working machine, then it should work.

I can put my AMF in gear, shut it off, release the clutch handle to friction disc is engaged, and it has three big engagement springs pulling the disc into contact with the platter. yet I can freewheel roll the machine around when shut off, in gear.

it's actually a nice option, because if it stalls or runs out of gas, the hubs release, and you can move it even with a dead engine

the only issue with the Ariens is, does it have pawl spring/ratchet hubs on both axles, or only one side ? the AMF has them on both wheels

here's what the AMF had behind each wheel, underneath the hub. this stuff stayed on the axle when the wheel was removed. the inner hub of the wheel has teeth around the o.d. like a ratchet. that center piece that pivots on a pin and looks like a little see-saw, is what the pawl spring acts upon, it swings and angles either way to engage the teeth in the hub, that engages the drive wheel

if the pawl spring is broken, which they often are, then it simply does not engage.
but if it engages under power, it's working. just grease it and let 'er be.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Great info, thanks. The problem first started like that - intermittent movement when in gear and at first I thought it was the friction disc out of adjustment or needing replacement but everything there was still on the money. It's gotten to the point where she wont move at all anymore so I suspect that spring is the culprit. On the original spare dead tractor ("transmission"), I'm not sure if there is a pawl spring/ratchet hubs on the other side but if so is the L interchangeable with the R?

And Ray, the other tractor I got that had a 4hp motor (currently the 7hp machine) does have the solid axle so I won't be able to use any parts from that box, but I may look into that option and rebuild the spare dead tractor to a solid axle setup after the season is over.

I never had an issue moving the machine if it ever stalled or ran out of gas (other than its weight). Machine off, as long as the auger lever is not engaged I can be in any gear with the clutch engaged or not and can free wheel but could always hear the gears in the tranny moving... not any more.

So all that stuff just slides off the shaft? Got any other pics of it all together on the machine?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thanks for the help and the pics. While working on the spare dead tractor I found out why it stopped working. Turns out it wasn't the spring that was broken .....



.. no little see saw cam. So over the next few days I will attempt to work on repairing the 6hp tractor. At least I have a couple spare springs and a cam if I need them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
Great info, thanks. The problem first started like that - intermittent movement when in gear and at first I thought it was the friction disc out of adjustment or needing replacement but everything there was still on the money. It's gotten to the point where she wont move at all anymore so I suspect that spring is the culprit. On the original spare dead tractor ("transmission"), I'm not sure if there is a pawl spring/ratchet hubs on the other side but if so is the L interchangeable with the R?

And Ray, the other tractor I got that had a 4hp motor (currently the 7hp machine) does have the solid axle so I won't be able to use any parts from that box, but I may look into that option and rebuild the spare dead tractor to a solid axle setup after the season is over.

I never had an issue moving the machine if it ever stalled or ran out of gas (other than its weight). Machine off, as long as the auger lever is not engaged I can be in any gear with the clutch engaged or not and can free wheel but could always hear the gears in the tranny moving... not any more.

So all that stuff just slides off the shaft? Got any other pics of it all together on the machine?
I had pics of that stuff on the axle but can't find them. yes, it all just slides off the axle. the pawl spring inserts inside the small flange that is part of the side panel of the machine and shrouds the gap between the hub drum and machine. you just insert the pawl spring in there, but you have to make sure the center pivot pin is engaged in the middle loop of the pawl spring. it looks like your spare machine has the complete setup. yes, they are interchangeable either side.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
Thanks for the help and the pics. While working on the spare dead tractor I found out why it stopped working. Turns out it wasn't the spring that was broken .....



.. no little see saw cam. So over the next few days I will attempt to work on repairing the 6hp tractor. At least I have a couple spare springs and a cam if I need them.

yes the ratchet tooth pivot part, is missing. the part that looks like a little see-saw. and the pivot pin the little see-saw rides on, is snapped off, see it ? someone removed it, and didn't put it back in
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks!
It's mild (40°F) here now and I was feeling ambitious so I removed the left wheel from the 6hp chassis and this is what I found ....


So not only is the spring broken but one of the teeth on that ring was snapped off and something cracked that collar...


I tried to remove the ratchet hub but it ain't going anywhere so I laid the machine on its side and soaked it with PB Blaster and will let it sit and try tomorrow with some heat. Meanwhile I'll take the collar off the spare dead tractor and get it ready for the swap. Luckily I have all the parts I'll need.
Thanks for the help guys! I'll post an update to close the thread when I've finished.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
So I repaired the left side wheel hub - got the spare friction spring and friction cup installed and now I have forward movement but when shifted into reverse it would not move. I took the right tire and hub off and there was no friction spring there and nothing looked broken... very strange as it worked before the left spring broke. It was late and I called it a night.

Do I need that friction spring on the right side too? Seems obvious since there was one on each side of the spare dead tractor, but how was this one able to move without it on one side?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
581 Posts
I would think both sides need to be the same so you probably do need a friction spring on the right too, but I am not sure as I haven't had the chance to work on a machine with ratchet hubs. Maybe GWB will chime in....
Did you check the adjustment of the friction disc for the the no reverse problem? I know it worked before, but if it's off a little bit it could cause the same problem. You may just need to adjust the length of the shift rod to move the disc to the other side of the drive plate when in reverse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Stupid me, I got reverse working. Don't know why because I never touched it, but the friction disc was not making contact on the flywheel in reverse. I adjusted the clutch rod and now have movement in FWD and REV.

I've started rebuilding the spare dead tractor and am on the hunt for parts. I've already sanded and painted the tractor body and was going to replace the friction disc in it so it will be all ready to go but for the life of me I can't find the new disc that I bought some years ago. D'oh!!

Thanks for the pointers and help.

Rob
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top