Joined
·
518 Posts
Ariens differential (new video from donyboy73)
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Joined
·
5,016 Posts
i would say it is his opinion on what wears out. i personally don't agree with his opinion. i think the bigger issue is the spring has got weak with age and heavy use which is what allow the gears to slip easier. i think if the spring was shimmed to apply a bit more pressure it may help the differential to work as it should again at a fraction of the cost since i know those differentials are likely not cheap
here is a link to Town's orignial thread.
Inside the Auto-Turn Differential
The Auto-Turn differential fitted to my Platinum is Ariens part # 04584100 (Differential, Automatic) and appears to be the same part used for all Auto-Turn differentials up to now. It is made by General Transmission as model DI 300 (marked on nylon cover). Last year I noticed the machine veer...
www.snowblowerforum.com
I agree, a stiffer spring would make that diff work better IMO. The weaker spring looks to be more slippage.i would say it is his opinion on what wears out. i personally don't agree with his opinion. i think the bigger issue is the spring has got weak with age and heavy use which is what allow the gears to slip easier. i think if the spring was shimmed to apply a bit more pressure it may help the differential to work as it should again at a fraction of the cost since i know those differentials are likely not cheap
here is a link to Town's orignial thread.
Inside the Auto-Turn Differential
The Auto-Turn differential fitted to my Platinum is Ariens part # 04584100 (Differential, Automatic) and appears to be the same part used for all Auto-Turn differentials up to now. It is made by General Transmission as model DI 300 (marked on nylon cover). Last year I noticed the machine veer...
Excellent video. IMHO you can increase spring pressure to get the unit to function again, but it will not function as designed. Once those points on those gears are rounded, you loose surface contact area, thus decreasing the torque that can be applied to the wheels. This is an extreme case as stated “20 driveways per storm had snow removed by this machine.” I doubt if any “Average homeowner” would put this kind of wear on this differential in 20 years. Maybe as these units age more owners will be requesting parts for this repair, and possibly Ariens will offer parts.
Joined
·
5,016 Posts
but if the spring becomes weak it will also result in the system not functioning as it should and allowing the gears to skip more easily than it should. the system likely requires a certain amount of pressure to allow the gears slip just enough but not too easily. like i said i think it could be shimmed to make it work again. it may take some playing to try getting it just right but i think it would be possible with some patience. definitely better than the $230CAD for a new one
Joined
·
518 Posts
I seriously doubt the spring gets weak and causes the slippage. The rounding of the edges on the "teeth" makes much more sense.
There's simply too little compression movement on the spring to be concerned with, no real rotation movements causing tangible stresses, no sufficient repetitive movement which would cause any heat to be concerned with.
It's been designed to withstand this type of repetive usage without failure (consider valve springs which are exposed to huge stresses are last for decades.) There's just too little stress on the spring to cause its getting weak.
The teeth however, take all of the frictional rotation forces and it's here where the wear occurs.
I do agree however that disassembling the unit every few years and greasing it will prolong its life.
Like @smokie1 wrote, the unit will probably last a homeowner 20 years (most likely more). And when it needs replacement, it's is only $136 (current price, which includes shipping.) For those using these blowers in a commercial sitting, I would imagine that a lot more parts are failing before the differential. (Cost of doing business.)
Besides in 20 years we'll be using battery operated snowblowers with small motors controlling each wheel. And it won't need an operator walking behind it. It'll start, open the garage door, go out and clear the driveway and put itself away when it's done. 🥴
There's simply too little compression movement on the spring to be concerned with, no real rotation movements causing tangible stresses, no sufficient repetitive movement which would cause any heat to be concerned with.
It's been designed to withstand this type of repetive usage without failure (consider valve springs which are exposed to huge stresses are last for decades.) There's just too little stress on the spring to cause its getting weak.
The teeth however, take all of the frictional rotation forces and it's here where the wear occurs.
I do agree however that disassembling the unit every few years and greasing it will prolong its life.
Like @smokie1 wrote, the unit will probably last a homeowner 20 years (most likely more). And when it needs replacement, it's is only $136 (current price, which includes shipping.) For those using these blowers in a commercial sitting, I would imagine that a lot more parts are failing before the differential. (Cost of doing business.)
Besides in 20 years we'll be using battery operated snowblowers with small motors controlling each wheel. And it won't need an operator walking behind it. It'll start, open the garage door, go out and clear the driveway and put itself away when it's done. 🥴
Joined
·
6,721 Posts
I think that donyboy73 is right on the money with his explanation. In my digital photo printer/processor, there is a clutch on each vertical rack that works on the same principle (although made of Delrin to protect it from the photo chemistry). These clutches protect the rack, rollers and gears from damage in the event of a paper jam.
Once the lobes in the clutch show wear, becoming asymmetric in profile, it's time to replace the clutch. You can temporarily keep it going by removing and stretching the tension spring, but it's not a long-term fix. Surprisingly, a better temporary fix is to thoroughly remove all traces of lubrication from the interlocking faces, which greatly increases the force required for them to slip past each other.
Joined
·
173 Posts
Not limited to Ariens, Toro and DR both use this General Transmissions EZ steer differential.
1979 (or so) Toro 724 (38050) and 2018 Ariens Platinum 24
Joined
·
1,732 Posts
Silly question, perhaps, but I don't have one of these in hand to test with . . .
It seems like the inner plates were taking the most wear, and considering that travel is mainly forward, that wear appears to be more on one side of the "teeth" than the other.
Could the two parts be reversed left and right to get the unworn edges in play, and perhaps get some more life out of it?
It seems like the inner plates were taking the most wear, and considering that travel is mainly forward, that wear appears to be more on one side of the "teeth" than the other.
Could the two parts be reversed left and right to get the unworn edges in play, and perhaps get some more life out of it?
Joined
·
5,016 Posts
i doubt the spring they use it built to the same standard. it is like saying coil or leaf springs on a vehicle don't sag or become weaker with age and use. there is likely more stress on the spring then you think especially if it gets used
but that temporary fix may last a lot longer than you think. it is only being used seasonally. it really depends on whether it would be worth spending the $230CAD plus labor to replace the differential to the owner or not.
That may work when going forward, but you’d then create the same problem in Reverse . Backing up up an incline, or backing up when you’ve just taken the top layers off super deep snow (say 24”top layers of really deep snow) and are trying to clean down to the concrete with the next pass.(did I explain that clearly)would be impossible. Your definitely thinking outside the box though!
You know there’s a whole lot of machines out there with this differential, and this is the first problem of this nature I’ve ever heard about. I know if no one personally who has had this issue. I’m guessing this is a using a residential machine to do commercial work issue. This is like buying a homeowner chainsaw to cut firewood 5 times a week all year round. If you’re going to cut this much wood, buy a pro model saw. Of course you’re going to have failures in the residential saw, as you’re using it for something it’s clearly not designed for. This is why the warranty on Ariens (& other brands) is shorter if they’re used commercially. I think we’re talking about a hypothetical here gentlemen (& maybe some ladies) that homeowners are never going to see!
Joined
·
5,016 Posts
but even the commercial units likely use the same differential unit since it will likely last long enough as far as Ariens is concerned. no different than most things built these days. got to build them to break so people are forced to spend more money on a new one
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
Joined
·
5,016 Posts
but what is the real difference? i wouldn't be surprised if most of the internals are the same but i am guessing it just uses stronger spring which is why they got aluminum sides instead of nylon
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
Can only go by the specs provided. Would need to do a Rockwell Hardness Test on the gears. Either way, they are not the exact same.
1979 (or so) Toro 724 (38050) and 2018 Ariens Platinum 24
Joined
·
1,732 Posts
There is a lot less load in reverse, though, since you are not feeding snoa. It may not be an issue?
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
