Ariens efi problems

all of today's machines are made to run on 10%ethanol gas. high test will help but is not really necessary . use a good NAME brand gas, shell,exxon/mobil,sunoco . whatever is near you, try to stay away from the off brand /no names. where i have found by testing to exceed the 10% level and many times be closer to 20 plus,that will harm the fuel system and engine,

what is the point having fuel injection if you can't run regular fuel? it sounds like you need to get the dealer to check it out and if need be contact head office if the dealer won't look at it. if you have to run premium ethanol free fuel minus well just saved yourself a ton of money and just got the carbed version.

Finnbear said:

The dealer hasn't worked on one yet.

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that alone sounds like the problem ,he hasn't worked on one. ? i have for him is has he gone for training on the motors fuel system?
you have a problem, take it elsewhere

Finn you were having trouble 10 months ago its under warranty why did you wait this long to have it fixed by the dealer
I would have had a backup machine dropped off free of charge until they fixed and returned the blower

Its there issues not having worked on one prolly bs anyway any top wrencher could get what he needs from ariens to fix it easy sheesh

Call ariens tell them this load of crap


So far its you that has dropped the ball

33 woodie said:

all of today's machines are made to run on 10%ethanol gas.

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For carbureted small equipment engines (push lawnmowers, riding lawnmowers, snowblowers, generators, etc.) That isnt necessarily true, and might not be true at all. Most engines are still older designs, I have never heard that *any* carbureted small gas engines have been specifically designed to deal with 10% ethanol. Most, perhaps all, are not. Which is why non-ethanol gas is much better for these engines, and why ethanol is such a big deal/problem for these engines.

For EFI snowblower engines? I dont know..they might be designed with 10% ethanol in mind. I don't recall this specific question ever coming up in this forum before, this might be the first time.

Scot

Just put a $12 repop carb on a neighbor's 9-29 Craftsman. Runs like a Top. No further Comment.

sscotsman said:

For EFI snowblower engines? I dont know..they might be designed with 10% ethanol in mind. I don't recall this specific question ever coming up in this forum before, this might be the first time.

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with fuel injection there should be no issue with 10% ethanol. usually with carbs ethanol usually clogs things up or causes the needle or float to stick but with fuel injection if there was any bad fuel in the line the pump just forces it thru.

Finnbear


I went back and looked at your post from February when the trouble started with your blower.You said you added Seafoam to the gas because you suspected water in your fuel.


This is just my opinion,but seeing as though Seafoam has a lot of isopropyl alcohol in it,it might not be such a good product to use in your blower because of the fuel injection system being sensitive to fuels with a higher methanol content than E10.I wonder if the system is sophisticated enough to compensate for the added alcohol.I also wonder if it's possible that Seafoam could have a negative effect on the sensors used by the EFI.

Mike C. said:

Finnbear


I went back and looked at your post from February when the trouble started with your blower.You said you added Seafoam to the gas because you suspected water in your fuel.


This is just my opinion,but seeing as though Seafoam has a lot of isopropyl alcohol in it,it might not be such a good product to use in your blower because of the fuel injection system being sensitive to fuels with a higher methanol content than E10.I wonder if the system is sophisticated enough to compensate for the added alcohol.I also wonder if it's possible that Seafoam could have a negative effect on the sensors used by the EFI.

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It's not really fuel injection as you know it in your car. It's really an "electronic carb" for lack of a better description.



It's mapped to a single set of circumstances, and that doesn't vary. Like when a car is running in open loop. There are no sensors on a snowblower EFI system. Sensors vary fuel delivery based on load, altitude, throttle position, engine temp, and air temp, I believe they only monitor air fuel ratio. (could be wrong, haven't seen one up close) These small, simple systems don't use these variables and only deliver fuel one way because environmental variations don't really change.

jsup said:

It's not really fuel injection as you know it in your car. It's really an "electronic carb" for lack of a better description.



It's mapped to a single set of circumstances, and that doesn't vary. Like when a car is running in open loop. There are no sensors on a snowblower EFI system. Sensors vary fuel delivery based on load, altitude, throttle position, engine temp, and air temp, I believe they only monitor air fuel ratio. (could be wrong, haven't seen one up close) These small, simple systems don't use these variables and only deliver fuel one way because environmental variations don't really change.

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Well,
I don't know what to tell you my friend,because according to Ariens service lit.,that system has an engine temperature sensor,barometric pressure sensor and a fuel pressure sensor that works with the ECU.


Ariens states that the system compensates for variations in the input from these sensors by adjusting the fuel mixture for smooth running and maximum power at all times.


The Seafoam might no directly affect the sensors themselves,but the ECU may not be able to compensate for the added alcohol in the fuel.

10 months ago, the dealer told me I was using the wrong gas, to use ethanol free premium only, and that would cure my problem, seemed to be ok for a while, but this season we are back to running awful again. I delivered it to a different dealer today, they too had never worked on one.
We will see...

That Ariens service manual is a great resource. I finally got my answer on how the system is configured. It is a open loop fuel injection system, nothing carburetor about it. Air temp, engine temp, baro, engine speed, Throttle position, fuel pump, injector. Easy peasy.

The manual is very complete with diagnostic info and hi resolution images. Any decent technician should be able to diagnosis and repair the issue. I’d love to get my hands on one for fun.

Lots of small engine shops haven’t grown with the times...yet. Gotta start somewhere, hopefully they get it fixed for you quickly.

With your needs I would invest in a Mr. Funnel and a second gas can to filter the water out of the existing gas before you use it as any gasoline will be subject to being a moisture magnet.

You may have a cracked spark plug electrode and they will cause you fits.

I would gap the plug to 25 thousandths and then try it with clean gas run through a mister funnel.

I use Seafoam in my truck and its capable of using E85 and I have not have any issues running the truck with it.

Finnbear said:

10 months ago, the dealer told me I was using the wrong gas, to use ethanol free premium only, and that would cure my problem, seemed to be ok for a while, but this season we are back to running awful again.
...

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Did you go through the post-season storage procedure as outlined in the owner's manual?This entails COMPLETELY draining the gas tank and then running the engine until it runs out of fuel.They also recommend using a "high quality fuel stabilizer" at all times.Myself,I would go with a non-alcohol type.

leonz said:

.....

I use Seafoam in my truck and its capable of using E85 and I have not have any issues running the truck with it.

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But who knows if the Ariens EFI system likes it.More than likely,it's not a problem,but it would be nice to get Ariens' input on this.

Mike C. said:

Well,
I don't know what to tell you my friend,because according to Ariens service lit.,that system has an engine temperature sensor,barometric pressure sensor and a fuel pressure sensor that works with the ECU.


Ariens states that the system compensates for variations in the input from these sensors by adjusting the fuel mixture for smooth running and maximum power at all times.


The Seafoam might no directly affect the sensors themselves,but the ECU may not be able to compensate for the added alcohol in the fuel.

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Well then, they have gotten more complex than I remember. Can't compensate, not without an O2 sensor, which, if they don't have (and I don't know) don't see how they can "maintain maximum power and efficiency at all times" IDK. Seems like a lot of marketing language.

jsup said:

Well then, they have gotten more complex than I remember. Can't compensate, not without an O2 sensor, which, if they don't have (and I don't know) don't see how they can "maintain maximum power and efficiency at all times" IDK. Seems like a lot of marketing language.

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Open loop systems can compensate and adjust for operating conditions really well. The added sophistication of a closed loop FI system with oxygen sensors would just further improve fuel efficiency and emissions.

Frankly, the best facet of these EFI engines Is the electric throttle control. I’d prefer an electric governor with a properly jetted carb. Less complexity, better load management, optimal reliability. Hondas EU inverter generators are a great example.

That looks like a real deal EFI system according to the wiring diagrams I have seen, although there is no feedback without an O2 sensor. It's only a matter of time before an O2 sensor is added and programmed into these systems, much like other government interference on emissions. Look at Tier 4 diesels,,,,

Finnbear, can you post a video of the blinking lights on the ECM? I'd love to see/touch one of these systems, It'll be a money maker for the small engine guys that want to tackle it. I know some dealers are resisting the new technology. Where are you located??

GLuck, Jay