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Discussion Starter #1
Greetings fellow snowblower enthusiasts!


I'm looking to replace the engine on my ancient and honorable Noma 9/27 which has a perfectly good TEC 9hp, but no ability to re-attach a starter motor which is pretty much a must in really cold weather. (the area of the block where the motor attached is just too damaged for re-tapping, or helicoil solutions).

My thought was to keep checking C/L for a pulled engine, or a damaged blower that still had a good engine and working starter, that could just be swapped.

So, for all the TEC Snow King flathead engine gurus here's a few questions: :wink2:

1) Is it true that the 8hp, 9hp, and 10hp versions of these engines were really identical engines, just running at different speeds?

2) To my limited knowledge, I have observed that there are two basic arrangements for shafts:
a) models with a single shaft
b) models with two counter rotating shafts

Were there additional shaft arrangements?

3) When you are up around this size of the Snow King, did they all have a stator, even if the blower didn't have a light? In other words, was there typically a stator wire tucked away out of sight on machines with no headlight?

4) For the 8,9,10hp version, with a single shaft, were there different shaft diameters or lengths?

Any advice on the above questions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance! :icon-cheers:

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Tecs always ran 3600 RPM - the comment about 8,9, and 10HP being the same but different speeds it false. As far as a stator, I suspectit depends on who bought it as to whether they put one on or not.

Also, most folks have no issue starting these by hand in any temp . . . . might there be another problem in that regard as well? And how did the block get so buggered up? It's not like starters need to come off that often . . .
 

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I bought a used 8hp with broken starter mounts in the block and the owner fabricated a bracket from the snowblower base and bolts on the engine to hold the starter in place.
 
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Tecs always ran 3600 RPM - the comment about 8,9, and 10HP being the same but different speeds it false. As far as a stator, I suspectit depends on who bought it as to whether they put one on or not.

Also, most folks have no issue starting these by hand in any temp . . . . might there be another problem in that regard as well? And how did the block get so buggered up? It's not like starters need to come off that often . . .

I can usually get it to start by hand, no matter what the temperature. But the coldest times I have tried to start it, you can exhaust yourself pulling on it. This old beast still has a lot of compression. So this is really a matter of convenience. The starter is certainly nice to have.

As to how it got damaged. Well....it started with the trained apes at the big box store where I bought it, all those years ago. They were offering free assembly at the time, and basically charged what it was worth. It was 25 plus years ago and I didn't know enough at the time, not to trust anything they did. They screwed up some other things as well.

Not too long after I bought the machine, the starter came loose and attempts to tighten it were successful but it eventually came loose again and stripped the drive gear. I went a few years without it. Then I replaced the drive gear and remounted the starter,even though the threads in the block were also damaged. It worked for a season or two, then came off again, and long story short, there's just not enough meat there to fix it.

This is not that unusual a problem for these old TECs though. There have been a few threads on the forum with folks with the same problem. The bolts are very short, and the block is very soft. Not the greatest design IMHO.

Basically, if I can find a replacement and the starter mounting threads are still good, I'll snug them up with lock washers and "hard core" Loctite, and then they should stay put.

Interesting about the 8,9, 10 hp. I have heard that many times before about them all being the same. It certainly seemed reasonable, since Briggs did that with the R-Tek engine. Rated horsepower was a function of normal run speed.
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Discussion Starter #7
I bought a used 8hp with broken starter mounts in the block and the owner fabricated a bracket from the snowblower base and bolts on the engine to hold the starter in place.

You know JL, I was thinking the very same thing, but I suspect it would take a bunch of experimentation and adjustments/changes to get it just right. Accordingly, I was looking for more of a "quick fix", because I have more projects lined up already, that I could complete for the rest of my lifetime....even if I live to be 150...:devil:


I've often wondered if anyone ever fabbed up a "portable" starter the would work on these old TECs, since there were so many of them around. You know, something that could slide in, guided by brackets or the like, and crank that sucker over, in much the same way they do with IndyCars......:grin:


Alas.....I don't have the time to come up with that either! :smiley-whacky017:
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Discussion Starter #9
A sniff of ether and one pull.....who needs a starter?



Cranman,


Yeah.....was considering that too. I was thinking about drilling a small hole in the heater box to allow for the insertion of a tube or straw into the throat of the carb might be just the ticket for really cold times, because trying to get the ether in there under that box is a PITA. :wink2:
I have a lot of power equipment that I make an effort to maintain fairly well, and don't really have many problems with start ups, so I guess I've become a "purist" and shy away from using that stuff unless I'm desperate. I absolutely won't use it on my 2 cycle stuff.
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What about WD40, or something similar? Something flammable but lubricatey (technical term!). I totally get the purist thing. But in special cases (really cold), maybe the engine will forgive you.

I did just get a squeeze bottle that lets you squirt out liquid, with the bottle still upright. My thought is to use it with 2-stroke gas, as a "primer" bottle. Rather than needing to use something like starting fluid, at least for testing purposes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/250ml-500ml-Tattoo-Squeeze-Bottle-Diffuser-Green-Soap-Wash-Lab-Supply-Plastic/223294105784?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=522077659013&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
 

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If it's not too buggered up, what about Helicoiling the holes? If that's not possible and you have a good welder person available, I believe this should be a cast iron block. Maybe have them braze some threaded studs in the holes for the starter so you slip it on the stubs and use lock washers and nuts to hold it on. Either of these, use some thread locker on the threads so keep it solid.

Just some thoughts.
 

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I would have expected an aluminum block, not cast iron. But my Tecumsehs have all been mid-90s or later. Maybe the older ones were iron.

Could you braze studs onto an aluminum block? I'm guessing yes, as long as the brazing rod melts before the aluminum, but maybe not.

Either way, there have been multiple discussion about this sort of thing. I kind of like the idea of putting JB Weld into the holes, then threading in a stud as far as it will go. Keep it straight, and let the epoxy set up. That should help the stud grab onto whatever is left of the threads. Let it harden, then try attaching the motor.
 

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I don't know about brazing to aluminum, but if you can get it clean, TIG is certainly an option. Build it up and redrill/tap the holes, or (if needed) build up and Helicoil.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What about WD40, or something similar? Something flammable but lubricatey (technical term!). I totally get the purist thing. But in special cases (really cold), maybe the engine will forgive you.

I did just get a squeeze bottle that lets you squirt out liquid, with the bottle still upright. My thought is to use it with 2-stroke gas, as a "primer" bottle. Rather than needing to use something like starting fluid, at least for testing purposes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/250ml-500ml-Tattoo-Squeeze-Bottle-Diffuser-Green-Soap-Wash-Lab-Supply-Plastic/223294105784?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=522077659013&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Red,


Yeah, I've used WD40 to start a stubborn 2 cycle on a few occasions. It did work for me. Donyboy73 recommends using this type of fluid for starting purposes in one of his videos. I think it was a Quaker State product---but I was unable to find it anywhere in the U.S.


I like the idea of the little bottles. Could have one with raw gas and one with 2 cycle mix. A handy idea. I think I'll order a couple. Thanks for the link! :wink2:
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If it's not too buggered up, what about Helicoiling the holes? If that's not possible and you have a good welder person available, I believe this should be a cast iron block. Maybe have them braze some threaded studs in the holes for the starter so you slip it on the stubs and use lock washers and nuts to hold it on. Either of these, use some thread locker on the threads so keep it solid.

Just some thoughts.

HCBPH,

No the helicoiling is not an option at this point. I even tried to cut some slightly larger threads into the existing hole but the aluminum is so soft, it was like trying to cut threads into a chocolate chip cookie. :sad2:

To me, for an engine as successful as the old Snow King, this starter mount design was not very good engineering. There's very little meat there at that part of the block and it is soft aluminum. By necessity, the bolts are very short and can come loose pretty easily. Out of frustration, people will tend to over tighten the bolts and end up stripping the soft aluminum. To mount a high torque starter like that almost looks like a design afterthought.

Whereas I can get a decent replacement used Snow King engine for about $100 or less and just slap it on there, I guess I'm just not that interested in pulling the engine and taking it to a welding shop, etc.

As I said in an earlier post, if I can find a replacement before next season, and the starter mounting holes are in good shape, I'll detach, and re-attach with lock washers, and some really strong Loctite, and that should be good for the duration. :thumbsup:

With my newest Toro OXE having now proved itself to be a front line blower for big storms, the old Noma will become its backup, and used only in the biggest snowfalls (of which we've had really none this year).

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Could you [someone] drill the starter mount bosses [mounting lugs] through, and mount in carriage bolts [ with the squares removed] and epoxy them in to mount your starter? People do stuff like this to save an otherwise perfectly good motor, I know it is a bit of work.
Sid
 
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