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With the size of the Kraken tank, the fact that my tank is full and has stabilizer that changes the color of the fuel slightly, there is no way I would see anything on the bottom of the tank. I may try a extending magnet retrieval tool but to be honest, I think mine might be the TB. @JJG723 can you confirm on your Kraken if your TB butterfly cycles when you first turn on your key? Mine doesn't move and @Sam Am I says his does with the key turned to position 2.
Yup esp since all is bone dry, agree......If the ECU is programmed as mine is, with adequate pressure, FI should have shot some fuel in, you have fuel to the filter and most likely into the TB, last stop FI or TB.

Else......Got fuel in the works, but is fuel pressure level okay? If the pump's humming is stopping? It then is pressuring up as you've said above, the fuel pressure sensor level then must be being met/detected and shutting the pump off, then pressure is most likely okay...(this also imples the intake screen is most likey clear as a plug on the intake of the pump wouldn't necessarily allow for proper pressure to develop on the output, guessing like 40psi within a few sec?(seems mine shuts off fairly fast). Thinking the pump s/would continue to run for extended periods as with slowed intake would come slowed shut off)

FWIW, if the fuel pressure sensor is working shutting off the pump as expected, then one part of the TB is still working because the fuel pressure sensor lives in the TB! If we then can say then the TB is alive, then it could be a stuck closed/dead FI?

Sry @system.....I derailed your question to @JJG723

@JJG723 Might your butterfly flip around at power up? Sounds personal.............
First off, Sam am I, I think at this point you owe me dinner 馃構馃槀.

Here is a video I put in one of the other threads. I shot this last winter so it's not current (still haven't put the battery back on yet) but you can hear the butterfly cycle when I first put the key in the on position.

 

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1979 (or so) Toro 724 (38050) and 2018 Ariens Platinum 24
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Just as a suggestion, have all connectors on the ECU, TB, etc. been removed, checked, and replaced to ensuren that they are making good contact? The throttle servo and injector are unlikely to have much in common other than the harness power and ground lines. This might be as simple as the factory failed to fully mate a connector . . .
 

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A buddy brought me his KTM EFI dirt bike which wouldn't fire. The bike had been sitting over winter, and I'm sure he did nothing for winter storage besides push it to the other side of the garage. The pump would run, gas smelled good, etc. The issue was a sticking fuel injector. I pulled the injector, shot in a little Quick Silver Power Tuner and connected up a method to get a little air pressure (25 psi or so) to the fuel supply. I then cycled the injector with a 12 VDC power source. Just tap the contacts to click it several times to allow the Power Tuner to get into the inner workings. When the injector was clear, the liquid flowed thru the injector. The bike started instantly after reassembly.
 

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First thing I did was check the seating of all connectors. I didn't check PIN 11 but did check PIN 12 and have 12v going to the pump. Why am I checking 11?
12V feed to TB.....But nevermind lost track that you check and had pump power, pin #11 feeds pin #12 I think, so moot point.....TB is most likely bad, we've covered it all +1 sounds.

{{{EDIT and a bit of a retract to the above}}} And this is perhaps the masters level of TMI in our trip and goes back to a statement about "high side" and "low side" switching mentioned previously....I don't see a positive feed from the TB connector labeled "pump +".....pin #12 TB connector is labeled "pump -". This implies "pump -" pin is a "low side" switch/transistor within the TB that grounds the pump to turn it on.........(Called "open collector" or "open drain" in the biz,, seen below)

The pump's "pump+" therefor comes from somewhere else AND is probably just a hard tied to the battery more or less, but through a fuse or something.

Why is this important? To me from the trouble shooting side, because reading TB pin #12 could STILL be 12V(pump has power) WITH actually a dead TB (TB Pin #11 TB power could be 0V from ECU and you'd still get 12V pin #12). Why?.....Because a 12V reading on pin #12 with 0V on pin #11 can occur BECAUSE the reading is the pump's "pump +" 12V feed, but you can read it THROUGH the DC pumps windings to the pump's "pump-" TB pin #11........Recall DC motor resistance is just a few ohms usually.

HOWEVER, I see you went back and have measured pin #11and got 12.35V....This is good!! Proves ECU is providing TB 12V, TB powers and controls FI and Butterfly Servo which by @JJG723 vid shows it should fire up at key on.........ECU has power, TB has power, pump has power, FI has pressure.....99% TB is bad.

Rectangle Slope Parallel Font Diagram
Basically the same as Rectangle Parallel Slope Font Circle


{{{{Re-edit}}}} "DC pumps windings to the pump's "pump-" TB pin #12""..........NOT ""pump-" TB pin #11"

TB pin #11 is "ECU+" but yall knew that.

Geeesh, editors these days suck at their jobs!!!
 

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12V feed to TB.....But nevermind lost track that you check and had pump power, pin #11 feeds pin #12 I think, so moot point.....TB is most likely bad, we've covered it all +1 sounds.

{{{EDIT and a bit of a retract to the above}}} And this is perhaps the masters level of TMI in our trip and goes back to a statement about "high side" and "low side" switching mentioned previously....I don't see a positive feed from the TB connector labeled "pump +".....pin #12 TB connector is labeled "pump -". This implies "pump -" pin is a "low side" switch/transistor within the TB that grounds the pump to turn it on.........(Called "open collector" or "open drain" in the biz,, seen below)

The pump's "pump+" therefor comes from somewhere else AND is probably just a hard tied to the battery more or less, but through a fuse or something.

Why is this important? To me from the trouble shooting side, because reading TB pin #12 could STILL be 12V(pump has power) WITH actually a dead TB (TB Pin #11 TB power could be 0V from ECU and you'd still get 12V pin #12). Why?.....Because a 12V reading on pin #12 with 0V on pin #11 can occur BECAUSE the reading is the pump's "pump +" 12V feed, but you can read it THROUGH the DC pumps windings to the pump's "pump-" TB pin #11........Recall DC motor resistance is just a few ohms usually.

HOWEVER, I see you went back and have measured pin #11and got 12.35V....This is good!! Proves ECU is providing TB 12V, TB powers and controls FI and Butterfly Servo which by @JJG723 vid shows it should fire up at key on.........ECU has power, TB has power, pump has power, FI has pressure.....99% TB is bad.

View attachment 198952 Basically the same as View attachment 198953
That still does not explain to me how the servo and FI can both be down. It seems that despite both being mounted on the TB, that they are electrically separate . . .

And (I am being lazy here and not rereading), but has the OP stated what indicators are showing on the ECU?

And has anyone (if possible) tried a noid light on the injector plug to see if the ECU is trying to fire it?
 

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Since the EFI powers up I'm going to assume it's OK. So, I suggest trying the simplest explanation first. 1. Is there fuel in the tank? (Remove the screen from the filler and check) 2. Is the fuel shut-off valve turned to the on position? (If there is one)
 

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At the end of last March I bought a Kraken. Snow was done for the season so I stabilized the fuel, put the battery on a tender and covered it in the corner of the garage. Yesterday, I decided to clean the garage and needed to move the blower. Well, what do you know. She cranks fine but will not start. I pulled the plug and it appears it's not getting fuel. With Monday being labor day, my selling dealer is closed for the long weekend. Before I make the two hour round trip for warranty service next Tuesday, does anyone have any suggestions on something simple I can check at home?

PS: I have servicing dealers closer but bought where I did because they were the only place that had a Kraken to sell. Are dealers generally willing to service machines not sold by them or am I best served making the trip to the selling dealer?
Does it have a safety key? I assume it does but make sure it鈥檚 seated 鈥f out a bit it may not start鈥ust a thought
 

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Since it is getting a 27 (low pressure) it may never get to the other tests (throttle sweep, injector shot), depending on how the ECU is programmed. Based on that, I'd suspect pump or fuel pressure sensor. You might want to take the line off the pump and see if it will move anything . . . as I recall, it can be heard to run, so might have a chunk of crud in a valve that might flush out. Were I paying for this, I'd go for a pump first since they are pretty cheap . . . (or work on that one - it can't get any more dead). All depends on warranty . . .
 

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I'd suspect pump or fuel pressure sensor. You might want to take the line off the pump and see if it will move anything . . . as I recall, it can be heard to run,
OP said he heard/hears the pump run/hum and then it stops and sees fuel in the opaque inline filter.......To me that says(mine works the same way) the pump is pressuring up the line(and thus the input to FI is charged) and because the pump's humming stops after a small bit says the pressure sensor is doing it job shutting off the pump when it senses the line pressure reached the correct pressure level in due time(intake screen should be clear then). So thinking with that, the pump, its intake screen and fuel pressure sensor must all be working more or less properly, right?

That still does not explain to me how the servo and FI can both be down. It seems that despite both being mounted on the TB, that they are electrically separate . . .
Not sure but the ECU's TB connector pin-outs lists both drive signals and supply voltages for FI (FI - [low side drive, FI + probably just ties solid high like pump +]) and the Servo (servo +, servo -, servo sig).........They are feed into the TB and I think right back to each item(FI and Servo), this to me says since the ECU drives both via the TB interconnect, the ECU(or the TB) isn't turning either on for some reason. We know the ECU has power and the ECU is sending power out to the TB(pin #11)....Kind of left with only the TB or worst case , the ECU. ECU seems to be clocking sane still(gens error code although erroneous), so hedge betting the TB not ECU.
 

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OP said he heard/hears the pump run/hum and then it stops and sees fuel in the opaque inline filter.......To me that says(mine works the same way) the pump is pressuring up the line(and thus the input to FI is charged) and because the pump's humming stops after a small bit says the pressure sensor is doing it job shutting off the pump when it senses the line pressure reached the correct pressure level. So thinking with that, the pump and pressure sensor must be working more or less properly, right?



Not sure but the ECU's TB connector pin-outs lists both drive signals and supply voltages for FI (FI - [low side drive, FI + probably just ties solid high like pump +]) and the Servo (servo +, servo -, servo sig).........They are feed into the TB and I think right back to each item(FI and Servo), this to me says since the ECU drives both via the TB interconnect, the ECU(or the TB) isn't turning either on for some reason. We know the ECU has power and the ECU is sending power out to the TB(pin #11)....Kind of left with only the TB or worst case , the ECU. ECU seems to be clocking sane still(gens error code although erroneous), so hedge betting the TB not ECU.
Then how is he getting the 27 code on the ECU? It would be nice to know the programming . . . . gotta wonder if it runs for a period, and then if it does not see pressure, shuts the pump down and locks out. Others have reported that a second "key-on" event typically does not run the pump, since the system is already at pressure. I can't recall reading if that has been tried here (or how long it runs when it does).

Myself, I'd put a pressure gauge on it to be certain . . .
 

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Then how is he getting the 27 code on the ECU? It would be nice to know the programming . . . . gotta wonder if it runs for a period, and then if it does not see pressure, shuts the pump down and locks out. Others have reported that a second "key-on" event typically does not run the pump, since the system is already at pressure. I can't recall reading if that has been tried here (or how long it runs when it does).

Myself, I'd put a pressure gauge on it to be certain . . .
I know, I think the 27 is erroneously gen'd(book mentions off codes due to other failures)) because of the other issues that relate to he never gets the tell tale servo movement nor the shot of fuel, should get at least servo with or w/o gas, mine did...........I reported that too because my line stays charged after the first key on, pressure sensor still knows this and inhibits the continued running of the pump when key is cycled again, BUT the book does state you can flood the TB by over cycling the key, of course this would only happen when the FI is fueling properly because each key on bring a shot of fuel regardless....Guessing the fuel line probably stays charged for hours unless gas is being used/shot in the TB by the FI. Yes on the gauge or loosen a hose clamp with key on(or cycled again) and if it pisses nice and pump kicks on again, probably okay and certainly would just back up the fact of he heard the pump hum, there's fuel in the filter and did shut/stayed off due to most likely ample pressure sensed by the pressure sensor......I think the horse is kicked?


Total side bar..........The stock servo that is used in the/my GLE (and Kraken?) that I have on the bench doesn't run "sweep" itself when powered up. It can be in any position and when power is applied, it just sits there(Is this typical? Not sure and isn't the point). Why is this important though?.......The pic mirco controller (PIC16F616) internal to the servo isn't coded for moving/sweeping the servo upon power up, It is the blowers ECU via the TB connector (servo +, servo -, servo sig) that has to be wiggling it about on power up.....Just a side note for later, who knows why or when. BUT, I think it relates here in that the stock servo is acting right if all it's getting is power and NO sig. It is the ECU via the TB connecter "servo-signal" that must be dead/missing.
 

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Yes, that is typical for RC servos. When there is no signal sent to them, they typically go limp, and when signal is present, they go directly to the commanded position. (Think how ugly it would be in an aircraft that was having power issues if a flight control did a sweep mid fllight . . .). The test sweep is clearly coming from the ECU . . .
 
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