[freeportd]

Hi all. I've owned many Honda snowblowers over the years, but finally picked up a used HSS928ATD the other day. I got it just before our recent snowstorm in the northeast - and got a chance to try it out. While it does have the old chute design, it didn't plug and the snow was sticky. That's a plus!

But, the travel speed was very slow. My serial number falls early into the range of blowers that apply to TSB #30 about ground speed. But, I'm not the original owner and the unit is not under warranty. I'm assuming I'll have to tackle this issue on my own as Honda is unlikely to cover it for me (not even sure I'll check). So, what parts are needed and are there instructions for someone to tackle this on their own?

If it helps, I'm fully comfortable with a big disassembly. I've repaired multiple "right transmission" failures on prior model hydrostatics. So tricky work won't scare me off!

Thanks in advance!

 

[freeportd]

I forgot to ask, has anyone done this themselves or were they all done by the dealer? If you did, any issues you encountered that you could share would be appreciated!

 

[freeportd]

Ok, I'm making progress on my own. I found this thread where Tabora lists the parts necessary for the TSB. And it also has at least one member of the forum who did the work themselves - although the tank is mounted differently than the dealer does it. No posts indicate whether this caused a problem down the road.

But, Tabora also mentioned that, because this is a design fault as opposed to a warranty issue, perhaps Honda would cover it. So, it makes sense for me to check with the dealer prior to ordering parts. Stay tuned.

 

[tabora]

I forgot to ask, has anyone done this themselves or were they all done by the dealer?

@Toon did his, as I see you have already found...

HSS928 SST oil expansion kit

Hi Folks I have read here on this site that there is an external oil expansion kit that was installed on the early HSS928 models. Does any one have a part number and perhaps pictures of the way this kit was installed. I think I would like to upgrade my 2016 machine. Thanks

www.snowblowerforum.com

 

[Toon]

Unless you are going to remove the transmission from the machine all you really need for parts are the Oil tank 56850-V45-PA10 at $33.42 US and from your local hardware store a 3' chunk of hose that is oil compatible, a hose connector to join the existing transmission hose to your new piece of hose that is going to the expansion tank, a couple of gear clamps for the hose connection and hardware to mount the tank.
If you mount your tank where I did, make sure it is low enough to get the cap off of the tank. I had to sand my lid skirt down a bit to get it to clear the threads for lid removal.
I did not have a slow speed problem this year but we did not have a very bad winter and the snowblower has only been out about 5 times this year. I like my tank mounting position better as the oil level in the expansion tank is higher than the oil level in the transmission. To me this mounting position provides gravity feed.

 

[freeportd]

Did you connect into the vent at the top or the hole where the fill bolt screws in? When the dealer does it, it looks like they connect to the fill bolt hole via an elbow adaptor?

 

[Toon]

Unless you remove the transmission from the snowblower, connecting into the top vent of the transmission would be very difficult. There is very little room to work. I simply placed a connector in the end of the existing vent tube, routed it through the vertical transmission mount bulkhead and into the expansion tank.

The original vent line terminates at the transmission mounting bulkhead with this fitting.

I placed a connector in the end of the original tubing and added a short hose extension to reach the expansion tank. I made the hose connector out of an old butane torch tip that I had laying around. It is heavy wall, stainless steel and has a nice 45 degree bend in it.

From the hose connector at the bulkhead the new hose extension goes on to the expansion tank.

You will have to pardon the use of the tye wraps on the expansion tank fitting as I didn't have a small enough gear clamp for this connection. Doubled up they hold better than the spring clamps that came with the Honda hose that came for this upgrade.

 

[tabora]

Did you connect into the vent at the top or the hole where the fill bolt screws in? When the dealer does it, it looks like they connect to the fill bolt hole via an elbow adaptor?

There is very little room to work. I simply placed a connector in the end of the existing vent tube, routed it through the vertical transmission mount bulkhead and into the expansion tank.

On my dealer-installed tank, it looked like the tank was attached to the former fill hole. I believe that would be the proper way to do it.

The original SST vent is listed as 20104-V45-A01 CAP SET $22.22
The oil tank page lists the equivalent part as 56860-V45-PA1 ELBOW ASSY., OIL $78.84

Presumably there is a significant difference between the two?

 

[freeportd]

Toon, thanks so much for the pictures and explanations. I'm still waiting to hear back from my local powersports dealer to see if Honda will cover this as a design issue (as opposed to defect covered by warranty). If they don't cover it, I know I can do it pretty cheaply with your information. Hopefully this post will also help others that picked up one of these units used - and the update was not applied during a prior owner's ownership.

 

[orangputeh]

Toon, thanks so much for the pictures and explanations. I'm still waiting to hear back from my local powersports dealer to see if Honda will cover this as a design issue (as opposed to defect covered by warranty). If they don't cover it, I know I can do it pretty cheaply with your information. Hopefully this post will also help others that picked up one of these units used - and the update was not applied during a prior owner's ownership.

I'm surprised I havent heard about this issue here in Honda country with so many new machines. Is there a serial number range for this? Was there a bulletin on this?

Following this thread.

 

[Toon]

I'm surprised I havent heard about this issue here in Honda country with so many new machines. Is there a serial number range for this? Was there a bulletin on this?

Following this thread.

This was an issue with machines built in and around 2016 and has since been corrected by Hydro Gear by placing baffles inside if their newer transaxles I believe. The original service bulletin is shown here.

 

[freeportd]

Still no word from the dealer. Not sure if that's good news or not...

 

[tabora]

Still no word from the dealer. Not sure if that's good news or not...

Even in 2018 on a 2017 machine, the process took 6 months to play out...

 

[freeportd]

I heard from the dealer yesterday. Unfortunately they still don't have any answers back from Honda - but kudos to them for their communication. It's amazing how customer service can be a competitive advantage - and many places don't understand that. But the dealer I'm working with in NH does!

 

[tabora]

But the dealer I'm working with in NH does!

Who are you using? I purchased my HSS1332AATD from Chappell Tractor Sales in Brentwood, NH and was pleased with their customer service, too.

 

[freeportd]

Tabora, you guessed it - Chappell Tractor in Brentwood. Everyone I worked with - including in Milton has been great. Even more amazing given that I didn't even buy the blower from them. They've got my vote!

 

[freeportd]

Good news! Honda approved the work for my blower and Chappell tractor will do it. The bad news? The hydrostatic tank is backordered 65 days. I actually discussed with the service manager the possibility that Honda no longer produces these - as the new hydrostatic transmissions don't require it - and in theory the campaign was a number of years ago - so likely most who wanted it done already had it done. We'll see what happens. Won't get fixed for this season - so maybe I'll get lucky and no more snow to blow in my neighborhood...

 

[freeportd]

Because the tank is backordered (although websites I'm checking suggest I could get it in 2-3 days - maybe they really can't), I contacted Hydro-Gear in hopes that I could implement the changes that were described by posts on this forum. These changes mentioned baffles and/or check valves in the transaxle that addressed the issues of slow ground speed.

I spoke with one of the product specialists for our transaxle (SST) and it was quite interesting. He reviewed all the engineering diagrams and notes - and the product has not changed since they started supplying it to Honda in 2016. I spoke specifically of baffles and check valves - and he confirmed that nothing had changed. He said it would be documented as this transaxle is used by more than Honda.

Knowing that later models of HSS blowers don't have the ground speed issue, I asked him how the later models wouldn't require the tank - yet not have the issue. He said it must be something that Honda has done externally as the transaxle hasn't changed. He offered mounting orientation/position as one explanation. Another offered was an external fan (to cool the transaxle). I think he also mentioned oil fill levels as well. To be clear, he says he doesn't know what Honda did - but these are things that could potentially address the issue.

I was hoping to learn what parts had changed - and then rebuild the transaxle myself. Instead I learned Hydro-Gear hadn't changed it over the years.

I recall vaguely Tabora mentioning a different vent valve listed on the parts diagram that includes the tank. I wonder if Honda changed the vent valve on later models so that oil didn't expand out of the vent during operation and resulting in low hydro oil levels - which would affect hydro speeds. I can only guess at this point. But, it was clear from my conversation with the Hydro-Gear specialist that it was nothing they did on their end.

 

[Toon]

You know I wondered about the functionality of this change from the first time I saw it, as the oil level in the external reservoir of the Honda modification was lower than the oil level in the transaxle.

The oil has to somehow get from the bottom spigot of the external tank up to the top of the transaxle where the fill port is to top up the oil level in the transaxle.
Now you have to consider that snow blowers travel on uneven ground sometimes and the siphoning effect needs to be considered, but I wonder if this upgrade was simply Hondas way of addressing customer complaints.

As far as the elbow supplied with this upgrade (#11 in the diagram), there is nothing special about it and it does not have a check valve. I did not use mine as I used the vent line to plumb my external tank in.

That being said I have not has a speed issue since I did my upgrade so maybe there is something at work here that I am missing.

My external tank mount location.

 

[freeportd]

Toon, I think the siphoning effect plays into it. A car radiator overflow tank allows coolant to be pulled back into the radiator as it cools. So, something similar could be in play here. If that's true, it would explain why the external tank can be mounted lower and still work. But, that assumes the transaxle is a sealed unit - and that vacuum develops as the unit cools. But, there's a vent valve there that would inhibit the siphoning effect - so I too am stumped as to how this works.

Because you utilized the vent instead of the fill plug, yours does because a closed system - and would enable siphoning. I wonder if your solution might be better than Honda's!!