Snowblower Forum banner

1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Guys I need opinions,

I got my ST824 working awesome but the engine has been having hiccups.

I typically feel I'm good with carbs but this one has been nothing but problems even before the machine was mine. I bought a knock-off carb from Amazon and hated it so I bought a rebuild kit and rebuilt the original.

Engine runs good, and then turns to crap, then good for a while, then crap. I can't tell of the float is hanging up, or what's going on. I did quite a bit with it today and it ran good for quite a while then had problems, then cleared up and then even worse than before.

At this point after spending as much time as I have getting the Ariens back to like new condition I need a reliable engine. The way I see it, since I didn't like the cheap new carb and I'm having issues with the original even after multiple attempts I have two options.

New Tecumseh carb for around $100.
New Predator engine for $240ish.

As far as I know, the Tecumseh is in good shape, although I'm also fighting with getting the governor working good. It runs at a good rpm without a load, but drops more than I feel it should under load.

Machine is a late 90s vintage.

What would you do? Buy the carb and hope for the best, or just spring for a whole new engine? I need this machine to be reliable when I need it, luckily it did the job today but one of these times it's going to leave me stranded.

I'd prefer a genuine Honda, but everyone on the forum seems to feel the Predator engines are just as good. Is an 8HP Predator as strong as my 8 HP Tecumseh? Are the Predator's bolt on replacements or are modifications typically needed?

ALL opinions welcome!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Here's pictures, just because I think every thread should have them so people know what is being talked about.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
predator...8hp version with 20% off coupon $195...couple new pulleys for the 1" shaft and you are golden with more power than you can imagine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
predator...8hp version with 20% off coupon $195...couple new pulleys for the 1" shaft and you are golden with more power than you can imagine.
Where does the new pulley(s) come from?
Also, any point in going with a 13hp?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
If your engine is really good otherwise I think with a bit more focus on the carb issue you may have it solved. To throw out a perfectly good engine because the cab is bad does not make any sense. right?

Here are a few thoughts.

1. Ask Why is the carb having recurring issues?
a. bad gas/contaminated? Is the inside of the tank clean? Use a bit of sea foam in the fuel. I assume you use stabilizer.
b. Old fuel line that is failing on the inside can be putting particles in the fuel? If so replace it and add a filter.
c. Corrosion in the carb casting. (do you see that white powdery stuff on the inside?)

If either carb has internal corrosion you may be fighting an up hill battle and you may be best to buy a new or good used one. This is due to water in the fuel.

Did you do a complete rebuild that included soaking it overnight in carb cleaner and then blowing it out with air? Did you remove the welch plugs?

Did you replace the float with a new one?


Just some thoughts to get you thinking. I think you can solve the carb issue by correcting the root cause.
A Predator is not a bolt on and go engine on your machine. Just remounting the chute control is a task in itself. It is doable but you are looking at more work than you may think.
Good Luck.



c.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,888 Posts
You can get pulleys locally at some hardware stores or places selling go cart parts, farm supply stores like FleetFarm or Tractor Supply or go on line : Snowmobile Parts, Go Kart Parts, Lawnmower Parts, ATV Parts, and more | MFG Supply (just one of many)

Depends on if you share DNA with Tim Taylor as the 13 would surely give you more power but the cheap 6.5 horse one would likely still be close to the 8hp Tech you have now.

6.5 HP (212cc) OHV Horizontal Shaft Gas Engine EPA

Maybe add a jet kit to it: Jet kit for Honda Clone engines

Just depends on how much money you have to play with. Nothing wrong with going with a bigger engine but in the "real" world I think that 13 horse might be more than you'd really ever get a benefit out of on a 24" blower (other than bragging rights :D).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
If you engine is really good otherwise I think with a bit more focus on the carb issue you may have it solved. To throw out a perfectly good engine because the cab is bad does not make any sense. right?

Here are a few thoughts.

1. Ask Why is the carb having issues?
a. bad gas/contaminated? Is the inside of the tank clean? Use a bit of sea foam in the fuel. I assume you use stabilizer.
b. Old gas line that is falling on the inside can putting particles in the fuel? If so replace it and add a filter.
c. Corrosion in the carb casting. (do you see that white powdery stuff on the inside?)

If either carb has internal corrosion you may be fighting an up hill battle and you may be best to buy a new or good used one.

Did you do a complete rebuild that included soaking it overnight in carb cleaner and then blowing it out with air? Did you remove the welch plugs?

Did you replace the float with a new one?


Just some thoughts to get you thinking. I think you can solve the carb issue.
A Predator is not a bolt on and go engine on your machine. It is doable but you are looking at more work than you may think.
Good Luck.



c.

That's something I've been wondering. I do know the rod for turning the chute would need to be anchored ot something which is an obvious right away, but I have no idea what else is involved.


Basically, this machine was my boss' and was neglected for years until it ended up in pieces and sat for who knows how long like that. I put it back together for him and got it running the best I could in a short time. At that time, the carb was full of mud I had to scrape out using picks and what not. After a while a spring broke and some other things so the machine was left to sit again.

Fast forward 3 years and it's mine. I went through the entire machine, replacing what needed to be replaced, or was missing. The carb has been apart many times but I avoided the welch plugs and did not soak it.

There was some corrosion in it but I did my best getting rid of it. Right now I'd swear the float is either hanging up, or leaking and I replaced the needle and seat. Float it self is good and leak free

Fuel in machine is new as of 2 or 3 months ago, stored in a heated area and I drain the carb after each use.

What's annoying is, I'll go to work on it and it runs beautiful, I can't even troubleshoot it. Then, it'll start, run beautiful for a while in use, and then start having problems. Then, they go away again.

I hate intermittent problems! :rolleyes:

I 100% agree, ditching an entire engine because of a carb issue is dumb. But, when the entire engine is only twice the cost of a carb, it becomes tempting. What I don't know is the quality of those engines, and what's involved in switching over. From what you said, it's going to be a pain.

I should mention, when it's not having it's fits, the machine runs awesome under extreme load to the point of almost stalling (wet, wet snow) as well as idling. It runs absolutely perfect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,740 Posts
Hey there ChrisJ!

A carb issue is hardly enough justification to toss what may be a perfectly good engine.

When you rebuilt the carb, was the carb body thoroughly cleaned? Have you checked compression and spark when its barfing?

"Running like crap" can mean alot of things. Compression (valves, head gasket), spark, fuel delivery, bowl venting, tank venting...the list goes on. In the time that it would take to slap on a predator, you can pull the head, reseat the valves, adjust valve clearances, soak/rebuild the carb and decarb the block/head for minimal cabbage...and its fun! :)

If you go the repower route, alot of guys here to walk you through it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Hey there ChrisJ!

A carb issue is hardly enough justification to toss what may be a perfectly good engine.

When you rebuilt the carb, was the carb body thoroughly cleaned? Have you checked compression and spark when its barfing?

"Running like crap" can mean alot of things. Compression (valves, head gasket), spark, fuel delivery, bowl venting, tank venting...the list goes on. In the time that it would take to slap on a predator, you can pull the head, reseat the valves, adjust valve clearances, soak/rebuild the carb and decarb the block/head for minimal cabbage...and its fun! :)

If you go the repower route, alot of guys here to walk you through it.
Haven't checking anything. I'm slacking right now. :(
Running like crap, meaning severe hunting mainly when not under load. Under load it smooths out, except for when it get's really bad like it was before I shut it down. Partial choke didn't seem to help. Though, when I shut the fuel off with it running before putting it away it seemed to smooth out after a bit before it got worse due to lack of fuel.

This is why I started thinking the float is hanging up or leaking. Kind of like the bowl is overfilling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
Go visit your local small engine shop and buy a used carb for $20 - $25. We always had some in stock from all the blown up Tecumsehs we scrapped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
Where does the new pulley(s) come from?
Also, any point in going with a 13hp?

Chris,

What I have read about the Predator conversions is that it is never a simple "bolt on conversion." That is, change pulleys, flip the gear box, remount the chute linkage, fabricate a cold air box, modify the mounting area of the snow blower, etc. etc. I have not done it myself and would only do so if the motor on my snow blower wasn't repairable. And, I have a complete shop behind my house with a mill, lathe, mig, tig, drill presses, etc. which I know how to use. If you want simple you must first determine the problem, the root cause and implement the corrective action. Is it fuel metering, ignition, spark, etc? If you can't determine the problem then you have no choice then to repower. I don't hesitate to take my equipment with motor problems to a local, and very good, small engine repair shop. They will honestly diagnose and come back with plan to either repair or replace.

Bill
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Hey Chris you can buy a genuine Tecumseh carb(640349) for $49 on eBay item # is 161609107162 It is brand new,go to Home Depot and get a new fuel line,under $3 also put in a 1/4" inline fuel filter. Take off gas tank and dump old gas out and put in new gas add a stabilizer to it something like Seafoam or Star Tron I did this to an ignored Blower and now it works like new
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
Haven't checking anything. I'm slacking right now. :(
Running like crap, meaning severe hunting mainly when not under load. Under load it smooths out, except for when it get's really bad like it was before I shut it down. Partial choke didn't seem to help. Though, when I shut the fuel off with it running before putting it away it seemed to smooth out after a bit before it got worse due to lack of fuel.

This is why I started thinking the float is hanging up or leaking. Kind of like the bowl is overfilling.
Chris, Some more ideas if you think it is flooding gas.

1.Did you test the float in gas to see if it floats or has a leak.
2. Did you test that tab that controls the value is at the correct angle? Techumseh has a procedure with a certain size drill bit to use as a gauge pin. I cant recall the size. Basically you want to make sure that the valve is closed when the float is level or parallel to the ground. You can bend the tab to adjust this position. It may be that simple.
2. Replace the rubber seat it may be bad. Or at least make sure you have it in the proper direction and make sure it is seated all the way in.

I typed this fast so I hope it makes some sense. I think you will get it. Stay on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Chris, Some more ideas if you think it is flooding gas.

1.Did you test the float in gas to see if it floats or has a leak.
2. Did you test that tab that controls the value is at the correct angle? Techumseh has a procedure with a certain size drill bit to use as a gauge pin. I cant recall the size. Basically you want to make sure that the valve is closed when the float is level or parallel to the ground. You can bend the tab to adjust this position. It may be that simple.
2. Replace the rubber seat it may be bad. Or at least make sure you have it in the proper direction and make sure it is seated all the way in.

I typed this fast so I hope it makes some sense. I think you will get it. Stay on it.

Yep,
I replaced the rubber seat and then checked the float level, best I could.

So far, I haven't had much time to do anything. I spent 12 hours rebuilding the blower and then some time on the carb and things seemed good.

Sounds like the carb is the way to go so far. Hopefully, we'll get some nicer weather so I can put some time into it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,740 Posts
Hey there ChrisJ!

A carb issue is hardly enough justification to toss what may be a perfectly good engine.

When you rebuilt the carb, was the carb body thoroughly cleaned? Have you checked compression and spark when its barfing?

"Running like crap" can mean alot of things. Compression (valves, head gasket), spark, fuel delivery, bowl venting, tank venting...the list goes on. In the time that it would take to slap on a predator, you can pull the head, reseat the valves, adjust valve clearances, soak/rebuild the carb and decarb the block/head for minimal cabbage...and its fun!


If you go the repower route, alot of guys here to walk you through it.
Haven't checking anything. I'm slacking right now.

Running like crap, meaning severe hunting mainly when not under load. Under load it smooths out, except for when it get's really bad like it was before I shut it down. Partial choke didn't seem to help. Though, when I shut the fuel off with it running before putting it away it seemed to smooth out after a bit before it got worse due to lack of fuel.

This is why I started thinking the float is hanging up or leaking. Kind of like the bowl is overfilling.
No biggie man!! When u hop on here and have 50 good suggestions thrown your way, can feel like you are spinning your tires.

That screams something with the idle circuit...and on the lean side since you need to choke it. when there is no load @ high speed, your governor is set properly, the carb butterfly should be barely off of the idle speed screw. Try turning out that idle jet a little (1/4 to 1/2 tun out) to see if it goes away. If not, the carb body may have a restriction. On my Hm80, always cold started with 1 pull and annihilates everything you feed it...but would hunt even with an idle jet adjustment... until I gave it a good soak In carb cleaner (removed the welch plugs), soaked/rinsed in hot water and blew out with compressed air.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Another question,

If I do buy a new carb such as the one Kensico pointed out on ebay.

Should I buy the correct one, which 640349 is. Or, should I find one with an adjustable idle mixture and main jet? I'd assume the adjustable one is better overall, no?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
No biggie man!! When u hop on here and have 50 good suggestions thrown your way, can feel like you are spinning your tires.

That screams something with the idle circuit...and on the lean side since you need to choke it. when there is no load and your governor is set properly, the carb butterfly should be barely off of the idle speed screw. Try turning out that idle jet a little (1/4 to 1/2 tun out) to see if it goes away. If not, the carb body may have a restriction. On my Hm80, always cold started with 1 pull and annihilates everything you feed it...but would hunt even with an idle jet adjustment... until I gave it a good soak In carb cleaner (removed the welch plugs), soaked/rinsed in hot water and blew out with compressed air.

Funny you should say that,
That's something I've been fighting with. I ended up using a screw off an older carb rather than a fixed jet. Not sure if that even works right to be honest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,503 Posts
Save the money and get the 6.5 hp for $100. It will easily preformed as well as the old 8hp engine and will be more reliable and plus it bolt right in to the same mounts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
864 Posts
Guys I need opinions,

I got my ST824 working awesome but the engine has been having hiccups.

I typically feel I'm good with carbs but this one has been nothing but problems even before the machine was mine. I bought a knock-off carb from Amazon and hated it so I bought a rebuild kit and rebuilt the original.

Engine runs good, and then turns to crap, then good for a while, then crap. I can't tell of the float is hanging up, or what's going on. I did quite a bit with it today and it ran good for quite a while then had problems, then cleared up and then even worse than before.

At this point after spending as much time as I have getting the Ariens back to like new condition I need a reliable engine. The way I see it, since I didn't like the cheap new carb and I'm having issues with the original even after multiple attempts I have two options.

New Tecumseh carb for around $100.
New Predator engine for $240ish.

As far as I know, the Tecumseh is in good shape, although I'm also fighting with getting the governor working good. It runs at a good rpm without a load, but drops more than I feel it should under load.

Machine is a late 90s vintage.

What would you do? Buy the carb and hope for the best, or just spring for a whole new engine? I need this machine to be reliable when I need it, luckily it did the job today but one of these times it's going to leave me stranded.

I'd prefer a genuine Honda, but everyone on the forum seems to feel the Predator engines are just as good. Is an 8HP Predator as strong as my 8 HP Tecumseh? Are the Predator's bolt on replacements or are modifications typically needed?

ALL opinions welcome!
if the rings are good and it's doesn't smoke, a carb, points, spark plug, fuel filter is a lot easier than a whole engine. the best advice I can give is, whatever you would do with your car, do with your snowblower. in other words, would you change the engine in your car, if it just needed a fuel filter or spark plugs ? not if you had good common sense...diagnose the problem and change just the part that's bad. save the repower option for when a rod goes through the side of the block, or when the rings are so worn out, the engine is puffing like a house on fire....:D
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Top