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Torque is not a power measurement and to be honest, I hate Briggs and Stratton using it on their engines. I understand why they went to it, but I don't agree with it.


You're right, if the Predator engine can burp out 8.1 ftlbs @ 4250 rpm in stock form then it'll do 6.5 HP.

I don't care how they rate an engine's power as long as they use a unit of power and follow a standard.

It can be Watts, Horsepower,Volt Amps, I don't care. But torque alone isn't one of them. Torque alone as it is on the advertisements is completely useless.


K, I'll stop complaining on the thread.

Power is useless when it is not rated at the RPM the motor is being run at. If there was some standard for these motors that said HP is rated at 3600 rpm then fine. Until then I prefer the TQ number since it will be fairly close to the peak number in the 3000 rpm range... After that I can do the math if I want the HP number...
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Does Harbor Freight sell a hand-held dynamometer for under $20 :D :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #43 (Edited)
Having looked at some of the go-kart sites and various articles, I'm a believer of the 6.5 hp rating.

It seems that with a couple minor mods, the Go-Kart folks are getting 8-10 HP (per a dynamometer) out of these engines, even before they really trick them out.

The published spec's on torque for the engine must be either 'padded' or incorrect.
 

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Torque is not a power measurement and to be honest, I hate Briggs and Stratton using it on their engines. I understand why they went to it, but I don't agree with it.


You're right, if the Predator engine can burp out 8.1 ftlbs @ 4250 rpm in stock form then it'll do 6.5 HP.

I don't care how they rate an engine's power as long as they use a unit of power and follow a standard.

It can be Watts, Horsepower,Volt Amps, I don't care. But torque alone isn't one of them. Torque alone as it is on the advertisements is completely useless.


K, I'll stop complaining on the thread.

You are correct, torque is not a measurement of power but rather it is a measurement of force and in the case of an engine it measures the force applied at the engines PTO. IMO it is the perfect spec for a snowblower engine, using a snowblower represents 2 forces opposing each other.
1. the force of the snowblower
2. the resisting force of the snow being blown
The higher the force applied by the snowblower the more likely you are to win the battle between the 2 forces. With that being said, another of my opinions regarding torque is that it is only useful when measured with the confines of a useable power curve which I believe to be 2300-3600 RPM. Spinning a motor at 5500 RPM without resistance to achieve higher torque numbers doesn't represent a useable figure. If you want a higher torque number in the useable range you need to buy an engine with a larger displacement. Either way you slice it $99 for +/- 8.1 ft/lbs. torque represents value when compared to some other options out there.
 

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Having looked at some of the go-kart sites and various articles, I'm a believer of the 6.5 hp rating.

It seems that with a couple minor mods, the Go-Kart folks are getting 8-10 HP (per a dynamometer) out of these engines, even before they really trick them out.

The published spec's on torque for the engine must be either 'padded' or incorrect.
Rather than padded I think they are on the conservative side since there is definitely more than 1.5 hp more power out of the Harbor Freight Predator 212cc engine over the 5hp Tecumseh. NR RACING dyno a stock Predator 212cc and the only thing they did was remove the stock restrictive air filter and put on a K&N high flow air filter and a larger main jet and 140 emulsion tube and a low restriction exhaust and they dyno the engine for a baseline reading of just over 9hp without even touching the internals of this engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
I'm going to try to pick up a Predator 212cc tomorrow at my local HF. So, I did a little prep work on the old machine . . .

Looks like the old Tecumseh has a 3/4" crank shaft . . . (click on image to see full size view)
IMG_5813.JPG

Here is the engine removed . . . Not sure if I will find a use for it . . . but maybe.
IMG_5815.JPG

I also took some time to do some adjustment on the clutch/gears as reverse was not working and the forward gears were barely working.

I'll post some more pics tomorrow, based on ho things work out.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
NEWS FLASH . . . Harbor Freight has extended their sale to this weekend. The Predator 212cc is on sale (again) for $99.99 :D :cool:
 

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I have done a repower on the exact model you have and the 212cc is an exact bolt up, takes five minutes. That little toro is probably my favorite machine as the engine kicks a-- and it is so easy to maneuver around. I put a larger pulley on the impeller but that was it.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
I got the 'Hemi' version of the Predator 212cc

Click for bigger picture . . .

IMG_5818.JPG

They had a couple of both versions (60363 and 60730)

I am having a 'little bit' of trouble with the end bolt that holds the pulley on the crankshaft of the old engine. Does not seem to want to loosen, even with my best whacks of a hammer on the wrench. I assume it is standard (and not reverse) thread, based on the engine rotation.

Any help there? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #50 (Edited)
All Done !!! :D

I finished installing the Predator 212 'Hemi' on my Toro 521. I had to make a couple trips to the hardware store and the auto parts store, but it all worked out. It seemed that my Auger drive belt was slipping, so my first few test runs into the snow bank revealed that fact.

Anyway, here are a few pictures from the day . . .



The mounting bolt pattern is the same as the Tecumseh HS-50 that was there originally



A common problem with the Toro machines is that the chute control shaft interferes with the left side of the engine . . .

So, a minor modification to the crank position is usually needed.


This is 1-1/2 " extension from the handle bar . . . it is a little tight to the engine valve cover, so I think I need to go another 1/2" making it 2" extension.

Even though there is no snow in the forecast today, and in fact it is raining, I did some clearing in the yard. . .

The machine throws heavy wet snow with quite some authority . . . about 25 feet, which it never could before.

Not sure if I will get the chance this year to try it out on freshly fallen/dry snow. It should throw that 40+ feet. With the old engine, I could get it to throw snow about 30 feet.

I took some video of the machine running . . . If I can post it to YouTube, I'll update it here as well.

Overall, I am glad I went the Predator route . . . hopefully, the engine will hold up. I am about 1 hour into the break-in cycle and have been varying speeds and giving the machine some running with moderate and light loads.

I did not see a break-in period spec'd out in the owner's Guide, but I assume it is about 5 hours, then an oil change. . . . I'm using synthetic 5w-30.
 
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Discussion Starter #52
Nice work!
Thanks, the engine is pretty much 'plug and play' . . . definitely has more power than the old Tec HS-50.

Here is a video that I put together . . .

 

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Now your gonna get the "I told ya' so" hehehe :D

Nice job, clean looking machine, sounds better than an L-head too. :)
 
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funny, i just did the same exact swap on my blower today. all that i have to do is reinstall the chute control arm and I will be finished
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Thanks Guys. This Toro 521 is now more powerful than my Troy-Bilt 2410 . . . of course, I could always put an 8 hp on the 2410 :)

$100 is a great deal on an engine. Funny thing is that the next step up (Predator 301cc) is double the price. Maybe they will have a sale on those some day. It would be a great re-power option for the 2410.

Based on what I was seeing yesterday, I'm thinking the 521 does not really need the impeller mod, but the 2410 certainly does. The impeller on the Toro is a much tighter fit to the housing than the other machine.

I'll try to get some action video today as I do some more break-in. I'd like to get about 5 hours on it, change the oil, and be good to go . . . in case it snows.
 

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Discussion Starter #59 (Edited)
Some more break-in and testing today. I also added some 2" caster wheels in place of the skids, which had completely worn down.


Here is some 'action' video clearing the residual snow from the back yard. So far, I have been very impressed with the power of this engine. I'm sure the Tecumseh 7HP would have been OK too, but at less than 1/2 the price, you can't beat the Predator.


I checked the RPM's both at idle and at full throttle (WOT). Idle was around 1800-1900, but it seems to like 2200 better. WOT was 4200 RPM, which I thought was a bit high, so I adjusted the throttle stop to 3800 RPM.



I'm letting the engine run some more and then will do an oil change to complete the break-in. My thought is to have this machine ready to go in case we get a late season snow storm.
 

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That looks great. Not sure about the hemi manual, but the regular one states 3600rpm, we all know the go-karter scene races the heck out of them, but not with the stock valve springs. They put heavier springs so they dont get valve-float at hi-rpm. Just giving you a heads up on that. Mine is set to 3600 + usually hovers at 3660 or so wide open. Also the regular version 212cc manual states 3-hr break-in as I read the manual when I repowered my friend's Simp/860. My oil was dirty looking (probably from the cast iron) when I changed it at a little over 3 hrs. I looks cleaner since. I am using Mobil1

You are correct the 8hp is twice as much, which was a bummer but my original engine had 1" shaft, so my stock pulleys would have needed replacing and I figured it I was going to sink 40 bucks into two new pulleys I might as well do the $ 192 with coupon like I did and enjoy the extra power.

Enjoy that machine.. it has a new lease on life :)
 
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