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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all
I just got a Toro CCR 3650 from a friend in non running. First thing I did was roll it over with the pull starter. Felt good. No start, not surprised, so I looked in the fuel tank and it had plenty of fuel. Almost clear fuel. Well s*&$. So I drained all the fuel out, drained fuel bowl, added correct premix, squirted a little oil down the carb to get things lubed up.
Still have a no start situation. Compression is at 90 psi. Has spark.
Removed the carb to look at piston and I do see some scoring on the piston.


So my question is should I just scrap this engine or is there still hope?


I was hoping to get it running and sell for about $135-$145 , Don't want the cost of parts to eat up the profits so I am working for free.
Thanks, Randy
 

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Did you squirt starting fluid in the carb? Check for spark? Sometimes there is no spark because there is a ground.
 

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He said it has spark, but I would second the suggestion of using some starting fluid, or spraying some gas into the carb's throat, to see if will run briefly. At least that would tell you if it's a carb problem.

I would expect that you'd have enough to get it to start with 90 psi, but I could be wrong. My 4-strokes fire with significantly less than that, which is what I'm using as a reference point.
 

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Did you squirt starting fluid in the carb? Check for spark? Sometimes there is no spark because there is a ground.
Yea make sure it will pop a little with starting fluid. 90psi is right on the fence on if it will run.

The gas could have fried the rings enough to make it not start. If it's not a gas or spark issue it probably isnt worth fixing.



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I would pull the plug make sure the choke is open and pull starter rope and see if you get a lot of gas vapor , keep doing that even with the plug attached on the plug wire so you can watch spark as you do. Does your plug appear wet when you looked at it..

I have had 2 strokes flood over through carb / and put a lot of fuel in the lower end that made it a bear to get started, as it was picking up excess from the bottom end. Not sure on the toro models but look and see if it has a lower end drain plug on the case.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Tried starting fluid no go.
Using electric start and starting fluid it is trying to do something as I would get a little smoke, but no pop or spit n sputter.
I to have had 4 strokers run on less psi.


BTW that was some fast replies thanks
 

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I work on a lot of 2 strokes. If you squirted oil in there and only got 90psi, it's done. Scoring smears the ringland enough to not let the rings spring out against the cylinder wall. 90psi is on the edge without the squirt of oil. With the oil should have been at least 130psi.
 

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idk where i work we pull the muffler and check for scoring if you have scoring you can still have compression yet still not be able to run properly. thats why first thing for every non running 2 stroke we service is pull muffler check cylinder walls and test compression. typically anything over 110psi is considered acceptable where i work but any 2 stroke with heavy scoring is typically wrote up as nwf unless its almost new
 

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never ever spray starting fluid into a 2 stroke, ether wipes off the small amount of the oil in the mix off the piston , cylinder and needle bearings. causing scoring from being dry, the correct method is using a gas oil mix in a squeeze bottle or old fashioned oiler can if the motor needs to be primed .

i'm with arienskids pull the muffler take a good look at the piston, if it's scored, it's done, short block time
 

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never ever spray starting fluid into a 2 stroke, ether wipes off the small amount of the oil in the mix off the piston , cylinder and needle bearings. causing scoring from being dry, the correct method is using a gas oil mix in a squeeze bottle or old fashioned oiler can if the motor needs to be primed .

Excellent reminder, thanks! I was forgetting about that aspect for a 2-stroke. On the plus side, any squeeze bottle you set up with mixed gas could also be used for a 4-stroke.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'll try it again this morning going easy on priming. There is a slim chance it got flooded. I did focus on getting it lubed with premix since I knew it had regular gas run through. I'l keep ya posted.
 

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never ever spray starting fluid into a 2 stroke, ether wipes off the small amount of the oil in the mix off the piston , cylinder and needle bearings. causing scoring from being dry, the correct method is using a gas oil mix in a squeeze bottle or old fashioned oiler can if the motor needs to be primed .

i'm with arienskids pull the muffler take a good look at the piston, if it's scored, it's done, short block time

i agree if you want to go the extra mile that would be the correct way... but spraying a couple little sprays of starting fluid or carb cleaner for diagnosis isnt going to harm the engine in any noticeable way. i have been doing it for 20 years without any adverse effects.

if your running the 2 stroke on starting fluid only for minutes you might see some scoring. i had a guy 2 years ago bring me his weed eater that was seized from running strait gas and weed eating his whole yard for 30+ minutes. i got it to free up with some mystery oil and diesel mix.

i put mix gas in it and its been running ever since. he is a regular customer and i always ask him about it when i see him and he says it still runs like nothing ever happened.
 

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90psi is right on the fence on if it will run.
I work on a lot of 2 strokes. If you squirted oil in there and only got 90psi, it's done. Scoring smears the ringland enough to not let the rings spring out against the cylinder wall. 90psi is on the edge without the squirt of oil. With the oil should have been at least 130psi.
90psi? 130psi? I did not know that. I've done compression tests on 4 cycle engines but never on a 2 cycle. Thanks.
 

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never ever spray starting fluid into a 2 stroke, ether wipes off the small amount of the oil in the mix off the piston , cylinder and needle bearings. causing scoring from being dry, the correct method is using a gas oil mix in a squeeze bottle or old fashioned oiler can if the motor needs to be primed.
I don't disagree with you but do agree with you completely however it's easier to spray starting fluid than have a small bottle of mix. I first use the primer bulb to put gas in the carb, if that doesn't work I put a capful of mix in, if that doesn't work then I resort to the starting fluid. I feel the engine life shortage is inconsequential as it has plenty of oil in there already from the all the gas I've already dumped in there, besides the darn thing will eventually fall apart and have loads off other problems in it's lifetime that will be the cause of it being disposed of properly!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Flooded !!!
Right now I have the carb off, Rolled the engine over several times and got fuel mist out the spark plug hole. Put spark plug in, roll over and plug comes out wet. Repeat. Plug still come out wet. Used compressed air through intake with spark plug removed and rolled the engine over. Put spark plug back in and roll the engine over. Spark plug still comes out wet.

Dang
 

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What's the best way to resolve that? If you pull the plug, to avoid fighting compression, maybe you don't pull an intake vacuum though the crankcase.

So do you shut off the fuel/remove the carb, and just crank it for a while, to clear it out? Maybe bursts with the electric starter (but not so much that you burn it out)?

Can starting fluid be volatile enough to help get it to actually begin running on its own? Maybe sprayed into the plug hole, after drying the plug?
 
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