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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey everyone..
this came about from another thread, but the thread really has nothing to do with this specific topic, so I thought it deserved its own stand-alone thread.
Here is some information from actual manufacturers concerning the question of running at full throttle, when using various machines.

Direct from Toro:
Why don't I have a throttle control on my mower?

Most Walk Power Mowers we offer do not have a throttle control. A throttle control would allow you to vary the engine speed from idle all the way up to full speed. We have found, not having it actually increases engine life and product performance.

Here are some of the reasons full throttle operation is best:
Cleaner cut on the grass
More power, less likely to bog down
Less stress on the engine
Engine runs cooler (Full speed means more cooling air from the flywheel area)
Slow engine speeds can result in hot spots on the cylinder
On units with throttle control we recommend full throttle operation while in use. Throttling down for a minute to talk to the neighbor is fine but that’s about the only time.
Source:
https://www.toro.com/en/customer-support/faqs/residential-faqs



Also direct from Toro:
What are the benefits of running your riding mower on full throttle?

Cleaner cut on the grass
More power, less likely to bog down
Less stress on the engine
Engine runs cooler
Slow engine speeds can result in hot spots on the cylinder
In addition, many of these machines have hydrostatic transmissions that generate heat during operation. They have a fan that keeps them cool and the fan is driven directly by the engine. Running the engine less than full speed will frequently allow the transmission to overheat. The first sign is usually a lack of power on hills. Permanent transmission damage can result. By keeping the engine at full speed the operator will keep the fan at full speed. This will maximize the air flow for the transmission keeping it cooler and preventing premature failure.
Riding products should be at full throttle at all times.
Source:
https://www.toro.com/en/customer-support/faqs/residential-faqs






From Ferris:
“ALWAYS operate at full throttle when mowing”
source:
http://www.specsserver.com/CACHE/frdaneyeuxwx.pdf



From Simplicity:
Throttle Control
This controls the engine speed.
Move the throttle control to the FAST position to increase engine
speed and SLOW position to decrease engine
speed. Always operate at full throttle.
source:
https://www.simplicitymfg.com/na/en_us/support/results/_jcr_content/par/productmanuallisting.downloadmanual.1757858_B_LO.pdf.html



From Ariens
Ten Ariens Manuals, snowblowers and mowers, variations on "run at full throttle"
https://tinyurl.com/yd5rrg36




From Honda:
Mow at full throttle with the transmission in the desired mowing speed for the best cut quality and performance. Mowing in a medium or low throttle setting will affect the performance and cut quality.

2. Move the throttle lever to the FAST position. NOTE: For best cut quality, and performance always use full throttle. Use the shift lever to select the desired mowing speed range.
source: http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/manuals/31763901.pdf




From Bobcat:
For normal cutting the throttle should be set at the full open position.
Using the machine at less than full throttle in heavy conditions will cause the engine to labor and result in excessive wear.
source: https://tinyurl.com/y8e484qy


Scot
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Since this thread has the potential to drift into conspiracy-theory land, if you wish to dispute any of the manufacturer-provided info in the first post..thats fine..but the contrary info must *also* be from air-cooled engine manufacturers, or OPE manufacturers. Personal opinion is irrelevant, on both sides.

Thanks,
Scot


Quote from post 29 in this thread:
I wish I had thought to instantly create a "post #2" in this thread, just for the excerpts from manufacturer manuals and documentation that support the opposing viewpoint..
but I didnt think of it until just now.. :frown:

So I'll turn post #3 into the post for that..I'll add quotes there..
and i'll also update post #1 with new ones for "run full throttle" if/when they are found.

So if you have any direct quotes from engine or OPE manufacturers that say its fine to run for extended times at less than full throttle, please write them up! put them in a new reply, then I'll put them in post #3 so they are all on the front page of this thread..my goal is to make this thread "one stop shopping" for all the pro and con data, so people can easily find it and decide for themselves.

Like post #1, Please provide a direct quote from the document, and also a link to the document itself.

thanks,
Scot

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Engine or OPE manufacturer statements, from manufacturer manuals or other documentation, that say it is acceptable to run an engine for extended periods, in use under load, at less than full throttle:

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From Ariens:
In reference to a snowblower with an EFI engine:
OPERATE UNIT
1. Rotate discharge chute and move deflector to desired positions.
2. Select desired speed.
3. Engage attachment clutch.
IMPORTANT:
For best snow-throwing results, ensure that throttle control knob is set to the Efficiency or higher position.
source: http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/05136000C_ENG.pdf
Note that the "Efficiency" level of the throttle is at about 2/3 of maximum . . . (Image on page 9 of that document - can't cut and paste that . . . ). Note also that the only recommendation is stated to be due to performance - absolutely no statement about engine life.

From Honda and Briggs & Stratton:
Also there is documentation that in some counties generators need to be run at exactly 3,000 RPM, this is due to the requirements for generating electricity:

I have made available to the Forum that Honda and B&S sell generators outside of North America to the rest of the world which run at 3000RPM to supply the 50Hz voltage these Countries use.
https://www.honda.co.uk/industrial/products/generators/specialist-open-frame/specifications.html#
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/eu/en_gb/product-catalog/generators/portable-generators/elite-8500ea-portable-generator.html
As far as generators being run at 3000RPM in other countries, they have to be. It has to do with that being the RPM needed to get 50Hz


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lets settle this once and for all...

Can somebody with an infrared thermometer gun point it at the exhaust of their warmed up blower

while at full throttle for 30 secs,

then at half throttle for another 30 secs

and see which way the temps go

bonus points for videotaping it

if i had such a gun it'd already be on youtube

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lets settle this once and for all...

Can somebody with an infrared thermometer gun point it at the exhaust of their warmed up blower

while at full throttle for 30 secs,

then at half throttle for another 30 secs

and see which way the temps go

bonus points for videotaping it

if i had such a gun it'd already be on youtube

.

I'd be much more interested in a thermocouple on the head than the exhaust. The exhaust really does not give a view to internal temperature.
 

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I'd be much more interested in a thermocouple on the head than the exhaust. The exhaust really does not give a view to internal temperature.
Agreed, but who is going to rig that up?

How about the gun pointed at one of the head bolts near the exhaust port?

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
.

lets settle this once and for all...

Can somebody with an infrared thermometer gun point it at the exhaust of their warmed up blower

while at full throttle for 30 secs,

then at half throttle for another 30 secs

and see which way the temps go

bonus points for videotaping it

if i had such a gun it'd already be on youtube

.
That could be interesting data..
but its not really relevant.
We aren't talking about 30 seconds..we are talking about lifetime health of the engine. (and hydro transmissions)

If you could measure heat, of the engine, for say 15 minutes at both throttle settings, that would be more relevant data.

but! even then, it might be interesting, but its still not really relevant at all. Because the manufacturers say to use the machines at full throttle while *in use*, while actually mowing, or snowblowing, or whatever. Idling a mower in the driveway at half-throttle, even with the blades spinning, is a far different scenario than actually mowing real grass at half-throttle for an extended time. that would need to be the real test, under load while in regular use.


Scot
 

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I assumed 30 secs would be enough but thats just a guess
 

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I think I am in agreement with sscottsman on this - long term thermal is more relevant, although that isn't a constant either, since load on a blower is changing constantly. The key would be to look at some known load cases and compare once things are settled into a steady state.
 

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if you wish to dispute any of the manufacturer-provided info in the first post..thats fine..but the contrary info must *also* be from air-cooled engine manufacturers, or OPE manufacturers. Personal opinion is irrelevant, on both sides.
I don't disagree with the principle, anyways. But I don't think info should be limited to stuff from the manufacturers.

If someone wanted to measure their engine temps, ideally with a full load (throttle wide open) at full-RPM, and a full load at partial-RPM, I think that would still be very educational, as an example.

(Oops, sorry, there have been a bunch of posts since I loaded this page. I'm late to the party.)
 

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but the load (ie the blower processing the snow) can vary from one pass to the next. Would this affect the results?
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Agreed, but who is going to rig that up?

How about the gun pointed at one of the head bolts near the exhaust port?

.

Hard to get head temp with the cooling shrouds on, and hard to get cooling with them off . . .



Thermocouple could just be pushed into the fins on the head past the plug into the fins.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
We do have a problem with such an expirement though..
Whichever way it seems to "prove", someone wont believe it..

I have said in this thread I only want manufacturer data..
And tadawson has said he doesnt believe the manufacturer data (in post 1 of this thread) because it isnt specifically from *engine* manufacturers.

So im willing to accept any manufacturer statements, tadawson only wants engine manufacturers specifically. Neither of us will likely believe an unscientific test from someone on youtube! ;)

Would still be interesting to see, even it probably cant be considered definitive "proof".

But for the most part, yes, we really do need to rely on what the manufacturers say, because they are the only true experts..we are not.

Scot
 

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Since this thread has the potential to drift into conspiracy-theory land, if you wish to dispute any of the manufacturer-provided info in the first post..thats fine..but the contrary info must *also* be from air-cooled engine manufacturers, or OPE manufacturers. Personal opinion is irrelevant, on both sides.
Thanks,
Scot

Your argument is with Honda as I stated in the other thread. Honda is running their engines and generators at 3000RPM in the rest of the world with no reported adverse effect, so why is Honda wrong and where is your proof of reduced engine service life?
Generator service is likely the most severe duty an engine will see.


EDIT ONE OF MY POSTS HAS BEEN DELETED ALREADY.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Your argument is with Honda as I stated in the other thread. Honda is running their engines and generators at 3000RPM in the rest of the world with no reported adverse effect, so why is Honda wrong and where is your proof of reduced engine service life?
Generator service is likely the most severe duty an engine will see.
I have no idea what you are talking about, in relation to Honda.
As I said, feel free to post direct quotes from manufacturer documents, and provide a link to the original document, like in post #1.

Scot
 
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