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there is a house here somewhere....
![Snow Slope Ice cap Atmospheric phenomenon Terrain]()
SECOND !!! Largest Winter On Record In Lake Tahoe California Area
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Nice pics. We're around the lake a little, in Incline with a house at 6700' and one at 7500'. A couple years ago my fleet of snow blowers was up to 5 between the 2 houses, 4 hondas and a yamaha (cult following, and nearly identical to a honda), plus 2 electrics for the decks when plausible. But 2 years ago I sold the yamaha, a 724, and a 1132 since it wasn't too often I needed others for more than backups (in the big winters of 2017 and 2019 even the Hondas were breaking down, but mainly just cables). Now I have a HS 928 and a HSS 928...and that one apparently has the older style chute, so the last 2 weeks with these warmer AR events have had lots of clogs with our Sierra Cement.
After building my own roof snow slider, I bought one. Like your early post says, that only works on fresher snow. If making or buying one today, and wanting it to cut thru as much heavier stuff as possible, you basically want an L bracket (sideways to your cut) that is as thin as feasible. Amazon has lots of offerings. The one I had bought was "Sesiwillen Roof Snow Rake Removal Tool" though it isn't available now. I used it maybe 5 times this year, as a precaution to help make it easier to get onto the roof if things got bad. It did, but that meant I had 6-7' in most spots instead of 9-10'.
Our roof is rated for 250lbs/square foot, which is the current code. We haven't had any doors sticking, but the load difference was enough from the sunny side to the street side that I felt I should at least partially shovel it before these recent rain events. I was able to get 3-4' in with a square metal shovel while on an 8' ladder nearly everywhere, and the next day got about half of the shady side roof, focusing on the edges where I didn't have to then blow it again. It was a precaution, but since we occasionally get a jolt from an earthquake that could amplify that weight distribution, it seemed wise.
FWIW, there are flat residential roofed houses around. My neighbor is a structural engineer and built their's that way, though with some giant I-beams. I'm sure his is up to current code. We have some older flat roofed houses too, including another neighbor across the street. He started having just a few micro-leaks, and so had his roof partially shoveled.
With the temps this winter being almost 5 degrees colder than average (from the Tahoe City station) it seems like ice dams have been the biggest issue. Another neighbor with a new roof started having water come into the kitchen thru a vent, when she let the ice dams get to 2' tall. I normally use an air chisel when we have 4-6" ice, but on that I was using a pickaxe. A friend of hers that has been clearing ice dams in Tahoe City and Tahoma, and who is a tree dropper in drier months, uses his chainsaw.
FWIW, the snow poles on 431 are only about half-way covered at the moment. It seems like it's just as much at 7500', where my 10' county poles are covered at the road, as it is at the top at 8900'. Each year is a little different, depending on the temps and how the storms stack up. In 2019 I had the utility lines at my knees when on the snow in front of our lower house, and I was able to stain the first 10' of the 2nd floor roof trim while standing on snow. But that year had a late start and was very back loaded. (that year, with more snow on the roof, I took a sample near roof level and overestimated the total load at 200 psf, also overestimating by not taking into account the slope of the roof)
My Honda's have been holding up well this year, though I wish I kept around one of the spare blowers. But surprisingly it's my wife who brought that up, saying there is some utility in it. Maybe we'll just help get our neighbor an older Honda that we can use if needed, or repatriate our old MTD 10/28 from a friend that moved to Reno, but we also might just add a HSS 1332 to the fleet (I didn't remember about the shear pin protection until today, and just used one at a friend's house to get thru 2 weeks of pileup at his place while he was gone). OTOH, there are times where I just want to go for complete overkill, and get a used Trackless from one of the snow removal companies, or even a Caltrans surplus blower.
Enjoy the break in the snow. There's more on the way!
After building my own roof snow slider, I bought one. Like your early post says, that only works on fresher snow. If making or buying one today, and wanting it to cut thru as much heavier stuff as possible, you basically want an L bracket (sideways to your cut) that is as thin as feasible. Amazon has lots of offerings. The one I had bought was "Sesiwillen Roof Snow Rake Removal Tool" though it isn't available now. I used it maybe 5 times this year, as a precaution to help make it easier to get onto the roof if things got bad. It did, but that meant I had 6-7' in most spots instead of 9-10'.
Our roof is rated for 250lbs/square foot, which is the current code. We haven't had any doors sticking, but the load difference was enough from the sunny side to the street side that I felt I should at least partially shovel it before these recent rain events. I was able to get 3-4' in with a square metal shovel while on an 8' ladder nearly everywhere, and the next day got about half of the shady side roof, focusing on the edges where I didn't have to then blow it again. It was a precaution, but since we occasionally get a jolt from an earthquake that could amplify that weight distribution, it seemed wise.
FWIW, there are flat residential roofed houses around. My neighbor is a structural engineer and built their's that way, though with some giant I-beams. I'm sure his is up to current code. We have some older flat roofed houses too, including another neighbor across the street. He started having just a few micro-leaks, and so had his roof partially shoveled.
With the temps this winter being almost 5 degrees colder than average (from the Tahoe City station) it seems like ice dams have been the biggest issue. Another neighbor with a new roof started having water come into the kitchen thru a vent, when she let the ice dams get to 2' tall. I normally use an air chisel when we have 4-6" ice, but on that I was using a pickaxe. A friend of hers that has been clearing ice dams in Tahoe City and Tahoma, and who is a tree dropper in drier months, uses his chainsaw.
FWIW, the snow poles on 431 are only about half-way covered at the moment. It seems like it's just as much at 7500', where my 10' county poles are covered at the road, as it is at the top at 8900'. Each year is a little different, depending on the temps and how the storms stack up. In 2019 I had the utility lines at my knees when on the snow in front of our lower house, and I was able to stain the first 10' of the 2nd floor roof trim while standing on snow. But that year had a late start and was very back loaded. (that year, with more snow on the roof, I took a sample near roof level and overestimated the total load at 200 psf, also overestimating by not taking into account the slope of the roof)
My Honda's have been holding up well this year, though I wish I kept around one of the spare blowers. But surprisingly it's my wife who brought that up, saying there is some utility in it. Maybe we'll just help get our neighbor an older Honda that we can use if needed, or repatriate our old MTD 10/28 from a friend that moved to Reno, but we also might just add a HSS 1332 to the fleet (I didn't remember about the shear pin protection until today, and just used one at a friend's house to get thru 2 weeks of pileup at his place while he was gone). OTOH, there are times where I just want to go for complete overkill, and get a used Trackless from one of the snow removal companies, or even a Caltrans surplus blower.
Enjoy the break in the snow. There's more on the way!
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A 250lb roof is Nevada code right? great 1st hand experience story btw.
I'm glad you brought up flat roof residential, because the more I see these pics and hearing about $10k-20K clearing bills, the more I was thinking that a flat roof home would be the way to go...I'd build a 1000lb minimum I-beam flat roof, that was homeowner maintainable( with a snowblower). I'd install 12 ft LED poles at every roof obstruction by October, and use removable lighted shoring on any cantilevered eves. Shored garage openings every 9/10ft. Top priorities would be roof load, snow storage, and then fire proofness. Architectural aesthetics would almost be an afterthought.
No flat-lander big open floor-plans, panoramic doors/ windows over a 12ft span.
You can also see the value of log cabin construction for the budget minded....full logs can carry enormous loads.
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n
![Snow Slope Stairs Tree Mountain]()
The code varies based on elevation and location. That 250 lbs/sf (there's a chance it's 300, I can't remember) is at 7500'. But there's a reason it's 400 at some of those houses in Soda Springs. Our local ski resort is about to pass 400 inches of snow for the season (they seem to be undercounting this year, but it puts it in the right frame of reference) versus 600 at high locations around Truckee/Donner/Soda Springs. That area is a little colder so the stuff should be a little lighter, something like an average 1:15 ratio instead of a 1:12 ratio of water to initial snow inches. But in general that area is going to get more due to the topography and normal storm direction. It's the ridge and a bit of a funnel, so the sponge gets squeezed more.
For house and roof design, nothing is perfect, but walking around right now during a big and cold year and thinking about what is causing what can really help. Especially since many/most houses are custom, so there are a whole lot of differences. Most houses and buildings are not collapsing due to this snow. The bigger thing is figuring out what to do with all the snow, designing it so that fewer things have to be cleared, that the ones that need clearing can be done so efficiently, and that things that self clear (metal roof with sufficient slope and no obstructions) does so safely and in a place with enough space. And then there is the ice dam issue, making sure that melt successfully makes it to the ground and doesn't cause problems.
Our house at 7500' has a composite roof and so holds the snow. We've had it for 16 years, and never have had a problem with ice dams. It seems to be well insulated and sealed up, with enough venting in the attic. But it also has a little more of the roof slope to the sunny side, and a garage, storage area, and porch (all unheated spaces) on the shady side. With less roof on the shady side and less melt, there's less worry of a refreeze. Frankly, it's pretty amazing that it does so well.
A few doors up there's a house by a former structural engineer with a huge blue metal roof with no obstructions, and maybe a 4:12 slope to both sides. It sheds well, though they get buildup on the shady side. But this area (upper Tyner) has a down-slope yard, and I believe a storage basement without windows and stucco siding, so it does fine. But for bad design, across the street is a house where the roof pitches to the front deck and front door, where it originally was designed for a composite roof but at some point switched to a metal one, that sheds. Now that a resident is living full time in it they are keeping up with the snow (they upgraded to a Honda HSS1332 this year), but in the past it busted off the deck railing, and completely covered the front door and front stairs.
Our house at 6700' has a metal roof, with a few different pitches and orientations. The side with a 8:12 pitch always sheds within a day. The shed with an unobstructed 3.25:12 pitch sheds over time, like a glacier. Other places are between 3.25:12 and 6:12, but mostly hold it due to valleys/dormers or change of direction, though there's just enough movement to rip apart snow wires if I don't run them consistently enough. On the shady side, ice dams form if we have 3+ days where it stays below freezing. This year was the first where I had ice dams forming on the sunny side, since we had extremely colder and consistent temps (for here). After our first year in this house I added some eye hooks to the roof for hooking in a harness, since a 2 story fall onto asphalt or concrete wouldn't be good. But there still is the challenge of getting to the one at the ridge.
More to your design, my neighbor who designed his flat roofed house has a big window from a stairway. With a small step ladder, they can easily walk right out to it. If we add on to our house, I want to create an easier access to the ridge of the house, instead of access being by ladder off a balcony to the bottom edge of the roof. But even more important is designing things so they just work and I don't have to go on the roof. Shedding roofs take care of both the weight and ice dam worries, but you have to have the space for the snow. Maximizing drip to the sunny side seems to work well, but that's where you want windows to bring in the sun and warmth, and our driveway and front door are that way.
I could go on and on with what I've seen up here, and we're not even in Soda Springs. But the biggest thing is thinking ahead about the snow and ice. In the summer a sloped driveway doesn't look bad, and I've had people ask why the 10' county snow poles are so tall. From day one I try to get the snow out as far as possible, to the places in the yard that can handle it. And a good snow blower makes that easier, since it can shoot it further. But even a new Honda has problems shooting certain snow more than 30', or up over a 10' snow mound.
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Which is why I mentioned storage as an important factor in initial design....It's amazing watching these removal contractors have major issues because they've run out of snow storage. Once it gets to a certain point, they have to truck it out, an incredibly expensive and sometimes even impossible option.
ALWAYS think about where the snow will go, BEFORE you settle on what to remove it with.
That's another thing I was going to bring up, Safe and EASY, hassle free access, if you or a contractor does need to be on a roof in the middle of winter.
Things always get interesting when it gets over the top of the chute!
Thanks for sharing your experience.
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SECOND largest winter now......dont know how to change title. too much to drink to care that much.....
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Easy, just click edit ( 3 polka dots upper right) and edit the title. Then save.
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Thanks @Big Ed ......I was clicking the wrong dots......and I havent even started drinking yet.....
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more snow porn...
![Snow Plant Tree Slope Freezing]()
![Snow Tree World Slope House]()
![Human body Plant Snow Eyelash Gesture]()
![Snow Building Plant Twig Window]()
![Snow Window Tree Sky House]()
![Tire Snow Wheel Vehicle Automotive tire]()
![Sky Plant Snow Tree Road surface]()
![Car Automotive tire Automotive lighting Building Snow]()
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we need to have about 120 more inches to beat the infamous 1952 winter here.Impressive photos!
I guess you had to bite the Bulleit to take those (LOL.)
(Sorry, a rye sense of humour this morning)
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