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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
LED lamp assy blew out, installed the new one and put the cover back on. Pull choke, start and it runs. LED lamp illuminates. Great until I heard metal noises like bracelets or coins in the auger area. Checked for obstructions, none. Engine still running until the Torque Sensor takes over and shuts it down.
No electric start so I attempt to pull the recoil in Neutral and it will not budge with all my might. I feared the worst and yes (I forgot to check the oil before testing the LED lamp engine start) there was no oil on the dipstick but no evidence of leakage anywhere though. Now I'm fretting and searched again for a solution here. The only amount of oil I found was in the Drainz-It tube sad to say. Next I sprayed the last half can of PB Blaster til empty for an overnight miracle, no go yet.
I have read dumping a can of Coca Cola to an ATF/Acetone mixture in the spark plug hole would work but my questions are how much in the spark plug hole and what exactly seized? The piston rings or the rod bearing on this particular model? As I added fresh 5W30 in the crankcase hole, out came very faint wispy vapors that I felt was cooked engine internals.
3 hrs later and a failed recoiI attempt I took a 12mm socket and breaker bar and turned the main pulley clockwise but it won't budge. I lean into it and now I'm going to strip the head off that 12mm nut off and here I am looking for any suitable advice.
This machine served me beautifully when it first came out on a 2018 purchase and I loved it til now. Just crazy miffed that I didn't check the damn oil...

Your thoughts and input. Thank you.
 

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Welcome to SBF... sorry it's such under unfortunate circumstances.

My guess is that the engine is scrap. Not only the bore, but also the crank bearings are likely wrecked. It wasn't the torque sensor that shot you down, it was the internals of the engine eating itself.

Were you still running on the oil that came in the machine in 2018?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply. I change the oil every fall as preventative maintenance. It's Fall now and this was the beginning of my PM schedule. If the engine is scrap, how to source another engine and the removal process will be daunting but I'm ready as I have 2 months to source one before Winter arrives.

What do you guys think about getting an extended warranty and calling it later to Honda and say hey I got issues with this model?
 

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What do you guys think about getting an extended warranty and calling it later to Honda and say hey I got issues with this model?
Your issue was that you didn't check the oil... and yes they can tell.

You wrecked the engine... man up and order a new one, or haul it to the dealer for repairs. The way the supply chain is (not) working right now I dunno about two months. All you can do is ask and see.

Generally we frown upon fraud... please do what's right.
 

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engine is most likely trashed. You can disassemble it and inspect it and if you lucky only rod is destroyed buy doubtful.

I'd be going to harbor freight and picking up a new engine.
 

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Before you throw in the towel, remove spark plug, and spray PB Blaster into the cylinder. Remove the beltcover, and use a Pipe Wrench on the crankshaft, You may be able to break it free. Make sure oil level is full.
 

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TOAST most likely.

But Jack Mels method has worked for me several times. I use Liquid Wrench penetrating oil in spark plug hole and let it sit overnight.

Attach breaker bar with 12mm socket on crankcase pulley wheel and try working back and forth. if it budges then slowly see if it makes a 360 degree turn. If the rod is broke it won't. If it turns then slowly
keep turning for quite awhile until it turns more freely.

Then use the recoil and pull the engine over a couple dozen times. Then change the oil since you have all that penetrating oil in it.
Then try to fire up.It will smoke like a B .at first or it may keep smoking due to damage.

Most likely the engine is toasted so don't get your hopes up. Since you let it run after making noises I am not very optimistic . A quick seizing is actually better.

I got a frantic phone call from a new owner of a 1332 that received his Honda in a crate and did not put oil in it. Same thing happened.

Honda will of course not ( honor ) the warranty.

Maybe you'll get lucky breaking the engine free but probably some lasting damage if you do.

Honda engines are almost bulletproof but they need oil to run.
 

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orangeputeh is one of the Honda guru around here, he will let you know about changing that engine out.

edit .... lol, beat me to the post
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Are we really responding to this:poop:
Really? Second post is how to cheat Honda?
It was a mere thought OrangePuteh, out of frustration at what I'm going through at the moment and spending $3500 back then. I'll add I'm a 2015 GMC Sierra owner with six factory recalls, six times the doubter than Honda recalls their products if that's a fair comparison. I noticed you are the Honda guru. I'm sitting in the garage with a BFH looking for a mechanical solution that's so deceptive but practical.
 

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Hope you get a miracle, and can recover the engine. Trying to screw Honda is wrong and they won't be fooled.

I am a little unclear where the oil went, did you find out where the oil leak was and what caused it?
 

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It was a mere thought OrangePuteh, out of frustration at what I'm going through at the moment and spending $3500 back then. I'll add I'm a 2015 GMC Sierra owner with six factory recalls, six times the doubter than Honda recalls their products if that's a fair comparison. I noticed you are the Honda guru. I'm sitting in the garage with a BFH looking for a mechanical solution that's so deceptive but practical.
Check post #8. That other post you quoted is NOT me.

Jack Mels is the REAL guru here. He is the one I learned from for freeing up seized engines.

Try what we both posted . You may get lucky........

Not sure what an engine costs otherwise . They are not too hard to switch out if it comes down to that.

I'm just curious why it was out of oil if you did not see any oil leaks which are extremely rare. Was it smoking the last couple years?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
I wouldn't fool Honda even if it was on my death day stricken with Covid. I know their reputation is world class so I hope this admission will clear the air.

I have a strong suspicion the oil leak was from the Drainz-It orange tube to facilitate easier and less messy oil changes. Each threaded end from crankcase to the exit spout were tight but there were extremely faint traces of oil at the exit drain end which is my only clue. I'm getting rid of that Drainz-It once I resolve this matter.

My only update is after an overnight soak the PB Blaster didn't help move the engine internals yet. Even with the breaker bar at the 12mm nut and lean on the clockwise position it won't budge. Lefty loosey and I'm disassembling the pulley.

My shop manual says it's a GX390T2 389cc gas engine and seems like a straightforward R&R job.

I'm toying with the idea of dumping Coca Cola or 50-50 mix of ATF/ Acetone. Don't know which I'll try first but I have a can of Coke from last nights Jack Daniels binge. Happy Sunday everyone and really appreciate the feedback.(y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Check post #8. That other post you quoted is NOT me.

Jack Mels is the REAL guru here. He is the one I learned from for freeing up seized engines.

Try what we both posted . You may get lucky........

Not sure what an engine costs otherwise . They are not too hard to switch out if it comes down to that.

I'm just curious why it was out of oil if you did not see any oil leaks which are extremely rare. Was it smoking the last couple years?
Gotcha... Well no evidence of engine smoke since ownership. Even with a Seafoam treatment.

These GX390T2 engines are pricey at between $900-1300. I guess I'll bite the bullet after these recommendations today.
 

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Coke will do nothing for you. It's carbonated water, flavorings and mildly acidic. You DON'T want it in your engine. Acetone and ATF fluid - a 50-50 mix has been suggested on the internet as a top notch penetrating oil. I think it was called 'Red's Formula' but I'm not sure. What all these top end 'cures' will do, is hopefully allow frozen piston rings (well actually, they are welded to the cylinder walls w/ micro welds) to break free. I watched an expert restore an old Jag engine on youtube. One of the cylinders was frozen in place and he poured penetrating oil on top of the piston (no cyl head) and let it sit for a long time. Then he broke it free w/ wood blocks and a hammer. I've read of guys restoring hit and miss engines the same way, soaking frozen cylinders for months sometimes before the piston can be broken free.

In your case, you might have frozen the main bearings, and/or the connecting rod bearings. Pouring P oil into the cylinder will do nothing to loosen these, and you just might break something with a big enough wrench. Note that the suggestions above were to use a pipe wrench and not try to twist the head off that bolt.

With the certain knowledge that there is internal engine damage, were this mine, I'd try to disassemble the engine and find what's broken/damaged rather than use quick fixes that might make things worse. Over the years I've discovered that I can spend my time trying to repair something or buy a new part/motor and simply replace it. The latter allows me to move on to an activity I enjoy more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Before you throw in the towel, remove spark plug, and spray PB Blaster into the cylinder. Remove the beltcover, and use a Pipe Wrench on the crankshaft, You may be able to break it free. Make sure oil level is full.
Done that with a left and right rocking motion with 1.1 qts of fresh oil. I bought more Liquid Wrench penetrant today which I'll spray and flood the top cylinder hole but I'm unsure how far that goes to reach and lubricate the rod bearing. Maybe a full can or two application will fill the closed crankcase approximately 1.1 quarts? Gotta do the math.

So far PB Blaster didn't work for me. Liquid Wrench next. I'll try the CRC line of products. Found a half can of Seafoam Deep Creep in my stash. Feel like that Project Farm dude on YouTube at the moment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Coke will do nothing for you. It's carbonated water, flavorings and mildly acidic. You DON'T want it in your engine. Acetone and ATF fluid - a 50-50 mix has been suggested on the internet as a top notch penetrating oil. I think it was called 'Red's Formula' but I'm not sure. What all these top end 'cures' will do, is hopefully allow frozen piston rings (well actually, they are welded to the cylinder walls w/ micro welds) to break free. I watched an expert restore an old Jag engine on youtube. One of the cylinders was frozen in place and he poured penetrating oil on top of the piston (no cyl head) and let it sit for a long time. Then he broke it free w/ wood blocks and a hammer. I've read of guys restoring hit and miss engines the same way, soaking frozen cylinders for months sometimes before the piston can be broken free.

In your case, you might have frozen the main bearings, and/or the connecting rod bearings. Pouring P oil into the cylinder will do nothing to loosen these, and you just might break something with a big enough wrench. Note that the suggestions above were to use a pipe wrench and not try to twist the head off that bolt.

With the certain knowledge that there is internal engine damage, were this mine, I'd try to disassemble the engine and find what's broken/damaged rather than use quick fixes that might make things worse. Over the years I've discovered that I can spend my time trying to repair something or buy a new part/motor and simply replace it. The latter allows me to move on to an activity I enjoy more.
Acknowledged sir. The wealth and experience offered here is humbling to me. No more Coke ideas from now on. I'll follow up on the ATF/ Acetone experiment.
 

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Done that with a left and right rocking motion with 1.1 qts of fresh oil. I bought more Liquid Wrench penetrant today which I'll spray and flood the top cylinder hole but I'm unsure how far that goes to reach and lubricate the rod bearing. Maybe a full can or two application will fill the closed crankcase approximately 1.1 quarts? Gotta do the math.

So far PB Blaster didn't work for me. Liquid Wrench next. I'll try the CRC line of products. Found a half can of Seafoam Deep Creep in my stash. Feel like that Project Farm dude on YouTube at the moment.
I have to agree with @WrenchIt . let it sit for several days with the penetrating oil and see if you can move it. However if it is the main bearing the oil is not gonna help. Almost every engine i have unseized was never really the same afterwards. They smoked or had other issues.

If the engine seized quickly maybe the cylinder is not that scored and you could rebuild it. depends if the journal on the crank is scored. I am rebuilding an older gx240 right now. Got the rebuild kit from Everest Parts LLC for about $65 that includes gaskets, piston, rings , etc. It's just a fun thing for me to do since gx240's are very cheap in the first place.

A guy brought a seized 928 to me. same reason. very little oil in crankcase. I had a spare gx270 in the shed . Charged him $150 for engine and $100 to switch them out. He was happy as a clam.

In your case , unless you are extremely lucky , you may have to change engines. Right now there are not too many cheap HSS machines out there that you could scavenge for an engine. For $900-1300 for a new engine , plus labor , I just don't know what I'd do. I do like the older HS models better. An older 1132-1332 can be had for around 1200-1500USD in the summer. A lot more now.

If you were close to me I would love to help out. I love challenges like this. Many people have brought me seized engines and I love bringing them back to life. It's 50-50 at best though on success (or less )
 
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