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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I have to agree with @WrenchIt . let it sit for several days with the penetrating oil and see if you can move it. However if it is the main bearing the oil is not gonna help. Almost every engine i have unseized was never really the same afterwards. They smoked or had other issues.

If the engine seized quickly maybe the cylinder is not that scored and you could rebuild it. depends if the journal on the crank is scored. I am rebuilding an older gx240 right now. Got the rebuild kit from Everest Parts LLC for about $65 that includes gaskets, piston, rings , etc. It's just a fun thing for me to do since gx240's are very cheap in the first place.

A guy brought a seized 928 to me. same reason. very little oil in crankcase. I had a spare gx270 in the shed . Charged him $150 for engine and $100 to switch them out. He was happy as a clam.

In your case , unless you are extremely lucky , you may have to change engines. Right now there are not too many cheap HSS machines out there that you could scavenge for an engine. For $900-1300 for a new engine , plus labor , I just don't know what I'd do. I do like the older HS models better. An older 1132-1332 can be had for around 1200-1500USD in the summer. A lot more now.

If you were close to me I would love to help out. I love challenges like this. Many people have brought me seized engines and I love bringing them back to life. It's 50-50 at best though on success (or less )
My quick 10 minute search online reveals that the Honda GX390T2 engines are sold out.p
Is a short block available from Honda ?
Unfortunately I called the nearest Honda Power Equipment dealer in Connecticut and he was only willing to assert that he's available next Monday on Columbus Day after 8am and informed me that Service and Parts will get involved in expediting a query ONLY to a source a complete GX390T2 engine during business hours. This was at 3:59PM EST before they closed at 4PM. At least I got their attention. I see where you're going with this and I'm interested with a short block as I have shade tree experience in swapping parts. Shop manual makes is look way too easy. Removal of negative battery cable, wire harnesses on electric start models, air cleaner cover, silencer nose, recoil starter and auger belts. THEN the fun begins with 4 hold down bolts for engine removal. From there I have 2-3 months before I see snowflakes. :oops:
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Just adding to my post. Entire cylinder is filled with Liquid Wrench for an extended soak, it's slowly draining in the crankcase. Didn't have any acetone onsite but I was busy cleaning a 1984 3HP 20" Aircap Industries Snow Champ Snowthrower. It runs but needs cleaning and other issues I'll post on a separate thread eventually. Amazon and Jack's Small Engines doesn't carry the ribbed auger belt MTD 706-11584 anymore.
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Just adding to my post. Entire cylinder is filled with Liquid Wrench for an extended soak, it's slowly draining in the crankcase. Didn't have any acetone onsite but I was busy cleaning a 1984 3HP 20" Aircap Industries Snow Champ Snowthrower. It runs but needs cleaning and other issues I'll post on a separate thread eventually. Amazon and Jack's Small Engines doesn't carry the ribbed auger belt MTD 706-11584 anymore. View attachment 181289
View attachment 181290
I personally use marvel mystery oil for a siezed engine. Have been successful several times. These methods of pouring liquids down the cylinder are only to free up the piston rings from the bore. They will not do anything for a gauled up crankshaft journal and connecting rod. If the crank journal and connecting rod got damaged, those parts will be toast. Let the fluids you have used in the head soak for a few days. Than try to break it free back and fourth with a breaker bar, don't force it, just enough leverage to break the piston free without snapping the bolt. If it doesn't free up, you need to open the engine and see what was damaged. If the bore isn't in bad shape, you may be able to get by with a new crank, rod and rings, if the bore is scarred, you can take it to a machine shop and have them enlarge the bore, than you can use oversized piston and rings. Otherwise its time to place an order for a short block or new engine now and hope you can get your hands on one sooner than later with the supply chain issues. If they say its going to take many months, I would go on craigslist and buy a good spare machine in the meantime for this winter, to hold you over, until you can secure a new engine. Hey you may get lucky and find a honda on their that has the engine you need at a good deal, but thats a long shot. What I and many still don't understand, is where did all of that oil go? If it had all leaked out, their would be a puddle of oil on the floor, or a large stain on the ground where it soaked in, if it was leaking while you were operating the machine, you would have seen it in the snow. Are you sure you did not drain the oil in the spring with the intention of adding fresh oil in the fall? Either way, I feel your pain, I would be sick too, if my almost new $3500 snowblower's engine became toast. Good luck. I had that little Aircap snowblower in the past. One of the best designed single stage they ever made with the air vanes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I personally use marvel mystery oil for a siezed engine. Have been successful several times. These methods of pouring liquids down the cylinder are only to free up the piston rings from the bore. They will not do anything for a gauled up crankshaft journal and connecting rod. If the crank journal and connecting rod got damaged, those parts will be toast. Let the fluids you have used in the head soak for a few days. Than try to break it free back and fourth with a breaker bar, don't force it, just enough leverage to break the piston free without snapping the bolt. If it doesn't free up, you need to open the engine and see what was damaged. If the bore isn't in bad shape, you may be able to get by with a new crank, rod and rings, if the bore is scarred, you can take it to a machine shop and have them enlarge the bore, than you can use oversized piston and rings. Otherwise its time to place an order for a short block or new engine now and hope you can get your hands on one sooner than later with the supply chain issues. If they say its going to take many months, I would go on craigslist and buy a good spare machine in the meantime for this winter, to hold you over, until you can secure a new engine. Hey you may get lucky and find a honda on their that has the engine you need at a good deal, but thats a long shot. What I and many still don't understand, is where did all of that oil go? If it had all leaked out, their would be a puddle of oil on the floor, or a large stain on the ground where it soaked in, if it was leaking while you were operating the machine, you would have seen it in the snow. Are you sure you did not drain the oil in the spring with the intention of adding fresh oil in the fall? Either way, I feel your pain, I would be sick too, if my almost new $3500 snowblower's engine became toast. Good luck. I had that little Aircap snowblower in the past. One of the best designed single stage they ever made with the air vanes.
Thanks for your insightful reply. I have a 150ft driveway that was a cakewalk for my HSS1332ATD. Where the oil went is still a mystery but the last time I checked was last falls annual maintenance checkup and then let her rip in the winter with no signs of oil leakage. Neither blue smoke was detected but the Drainz-It oil tube was in the slightest bit moist. This snowblower sits atop several layers of corrugated cardboard so the hard to clear snow melts in my garage slowly and that probably is the Drainz-It tube slow leak from March 2021 til yesterday I'm suspecting but 1 quart of oil would leave an obvious stain on cardboard which isn't apparent here. I'll try the Marvel Mystery Oil, 2 quarts in my inventory.

All of you have been extremely helpful, again thanks for the feedback. I wish I didn't sell my '87 Chevy pickup truck and buy a cheap plow for front end snow clearance. :sneaky:
 

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Thanks for your insightful reply. I have a 150ft driveway that was a cakewalk for my HSS1332ATD. Where the oil went is still a mystery but the last time I checked was last falls annual maintenance checkup and then let her rip in the winter with no signs of oil leakage. Neither blue smoke was detected but the Drainz-It oil tube was in the slightest bit moist. This snowblower sits atop several layers of corrugated cardboard so the hard to clear snow melts in my garage slowly and that probably is the Drainz-It tube slow leak from March 2021 til yesterday I'm suspecting but 1 quart of oil would leave an obvious stain on cardboard which isn't apparent here. I'll try the Marvel Mystery Oil, 2 quarts in my inventory.

All of you have been extremely helpful, again thanks for the feedback. I wish I didn't sell my '87 Chevy pickup truck and buy a cheap plow for front end snow clearance. :sneaky:
maybe another recommendation, try to get on of these oil, I have had good luck getting stuck engine unstuck, just put it in the sparkplug hole and let it sit for 24 to 48 hours, then try oving the engine with a breaker bar, and a pipe for more leverage.
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maybe another recommendation, try to get on of these oil, I have had good luck getting stuck engine unstuck, just put it in the sparkplug hole and let it sit for 24 to 48 hours, then try oving the engine with a breaker bar, and a pipe for more leverage. View attachment 181292
Three in one is just a light machine oil - similar to sewing machine oil. The fact of the matter is virtually any oil/penetrating oil will work, the latter being thinner will simply work more quickly.
 

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Maybe get full insurance coverage on it and let someone "steal" it.

I am Sicilian and larceny is in my blood........
If he posts his address, you can snatch the snowblower. That solves two issues. You have a challenge you would really enjoy digging into, and he gets to claim the snowblower was stolen. His homeowners insurance kicks in, less that hefty deductible. :ROFLMAO: A win win.
 

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I wouldn't fool Honda even if it was on my death day stricken with Covid. I know their reputation is world class so I hope this admission will clear the air.

I have a strong suspicion the oil leak was from the Drainz-It orange tube to facilitate easier and less messy oil changes. Each threaded end from crankcase to the exit spout were tight but there were extremely faint traces of oil at the exit drain end which is my only clue. I'm getting rid of that Drainz-It once I resolve this matter.

My only update is after an overnight soak the PB Blaster didn't help move the engine internals yet. Even with the breaker bar at the 12mm nut and lean on the clockwise position it won't budge. Lefty loosey and I'm disassembling the pulley.

My shop manual says it's a GX390T2 389cc gas engine and seems like a straightforward R&R job.

I'm toying with the idea of dumping Coca Cola or 50-50 mix of ATF/ Acetone. Don't know which I'll try first but I have a can of Coke from last nights Jack Daniels binge. Happy Sunday everyone and really appreciate the feedback.(y)
I strongly doubt your Drainz-it hose created the problem, I have them installed on every small engine I own with the exception of my 2 Honda EU2200 gennys that dont have a drain port other than the filling cap. If your engine lost a litre of oil while sitting you would have noticed...

The Drainz-it hose is reliable if the user does his/her part IMO..... and forget about the coke...except for the 40C....
 

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Even if you get the engine to turn over and start i personally wouldn't trust it.
I would bite the bullet today and take the engine off put it on the bench and disassemble it and see what's going on inside.
The rod is almost 100% guaranteed to be toast and if there is alum on the crank it can safely be removed in many cases without damaging the crank.
Replacing a rod is cheap and I'd want to know what was going on inside the engine before i depended on it for snow removal this winter.
you can get clone parts cheap for this engine including cranks rods. If the cylinder is badly scoured i would just replace the engine.

If it is unreasonable to repair the engine i would get a harbor freight 13hp engine and put that on it for 400 dollars.

 

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Thanks for your insightful reply. I have a 150ft driveway that was a cakewalk for my HSS1332ATD. Where the oil went is still a mystery but the last time I checked was last falls annual maintenance checkup and then let her rip in the winter with no signs of oil leakage. Neither blue smoke was detected but the Drainz-It oil tube was in the slightest bit moist. This snowblower sits atop several layers of corrugated cardboard so the hard to clear snow melts in my garage slowly and that probably is the Drainz-It tube slow leak from March 2021 til yesterday I'm suspecting but 1 quart of oil would leave an obvious stain on cardboard which isn't apparent here. I'll try the Marvel Mystery Oil, 2 quarts in my inventory.

All of you have been extremely helpful, again thanks for the feedback. I wish I didn't sell my '87 Chevy pickup truck and buy a cheap plow for front end snow clearance. :sneaky:
I would actually try the warranty, not for the fact that your engine is seized, but for the fact that it lost oil, and you don't know from where, expect for the drain tube, but you are not sure, try putting oil in it, let it sit for a week, then check if the oil has leaked out, if it did, but you can't see it, they might be another hidden problem with the engine, that wouldn,t be you fault
 

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I would actually try the warranty, not for the fact that your engine is seized, but for the fact that it lost oil, and you don't know from where, expect for the drain tube, but you are not sure, try putting oil in it, let it sit for a week, then check if the oil has leaked out, if it did, but you can't see it, they might be another hidden problem with the engine, that wouldn,t be you fault
I would actually try the warranty, not for the fact that your engine is seized, but for the fact that it lost oil, and you don't know from where, expect for the drain tube, but you are not sure, try putting oil in it, let it sit for a week, then check if the oil has leaked out, if it did, but you can't see it, they might be another hidden problem with the engine, that wouldn,t be you fault
You may be right. There was/is some kind of fault here since the owner did check the oil from time to time. It was losing oil from somewhere; a leak or burning off too quickly. I have seen many Honda engines that are full of oil after 7-10-15 years and the owner NEVER checked the oil.

it's worth the a try.
 

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I would actually try the warranty, not for the fact that your engine is seized, but for the fact that it lost oil, and you don't know from where, expect for the drain tube, but you are not sure, try putting oil in it, let it sit for a week, then check if the oil has leaked out, if it did, but you can't see it, they might be another hidden problem with the engine, that wouldn,t be you fault
I hate to say this, but I'll be the bad guy for a minute. Absent a crack in the bottom of the crankcase (where the oil escaped) and obvious signs that the casting is/was defective, the OP has no chance of getting satisfaction from Honda. He admitted the storage situation was iffy - the snowblower was stored on a pile of old cardboard where an oil leak would not be obvious. He admitted he did not check the oil before starting, and installed an aftermarket device (the Drainztube) that could have caused the oil leak. From what we have been told, I think that when he changed the oil he was interrupted and simply forgot to add new oil.

A new engine is a big bullet to bite, but who is to blame here? Honda would want proof that the oil was changed by a competent mechanic. How can a homeowner say, with a straight face, I put oil in the engine when I changed it, there were no signs of oil leakage in my garage, the engine did not burn oil - it did not show white smoke, and expect them to fork over a new engine? I have heard and read of quick oil change places that failed to tighten the filter or drain plug (an acquaintance had this happen - no drain plug), the engine dumped the oil and seized. In these cases the company's insurance invariably picked up the tab. I would think the OP would have more luck with his homeowner's insurance.
 

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I hate to say this, but I'll be the bad guy for a minute. Absent a crack in the bottom of the crankcase (where the oil escaped) and obvious signs that the casting is/was defective, the OP has no chance of getting satisfaction from Honda. He admitted the storage situation was iffy - the snowblower was stored on a pile of old cardboard where an oil leak would not be obvious.
Wouldn't it actually be obvious on a cardboard if oil had leaked?
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Even if you get the engine to turn over and start i personally wouldn't trust it.
I would bite the bullet today and take the engine off put it on the bench and disassemble it and see what's going on inside.
The rod is almost 100% guaranteed to be toast and if there is alum on the crank it can safely be removed in many cases without damaging the crank.
Replacing a rod is cheap and I'd want to know what was going on inside the engine before i depended on it for snow removal this winter.
you can get clone parts cheap for this engine including cranks rods. If the cylinder is badly scoured i would just replace the engine.

If it is unreasonable to repair the engine i would get a harbor freight 13hp engine and put that on it for 400 dollars.

More HP and more TQ sounds like a good idea to upgrade my snowblower however does the crankshaft snout align with the factory pulley height and setup from what the Honda HSS1332ATD specs call for?

It has been 12 hours after I flooded the cylinder bore with Liquid Wrench. I still cannot turn the crankshaft and the Auger Torque Sensor throws a red light at me comically. I'm draining any fluids now and proceeding to try the ATF Acetone experiment and throw 1.5 quarts of that in the crankcase hole and let it sit longer.
 

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Leaking a liter of oil would be obvious if sitting on concrete, asphalt, card board or even dirt IMHO. If there was no oil stain under or around the machine where it was stored, it did not leak out while sitting in storage. The oil was either burned off, or leaked out during operation or it was not refilled.

I think you will need to let the penetrant etc soak for weeks to see if it will do anything, doubtful it will. I would remove the engine and open it up and see how bad the damage is.
With the shortage of parts right now, I think you will need to get lucky to find a new Honda snow blower engine by winter. I would probably start looking for a used machine now for the upcoming winter and that will give you time to source the parts or a new engine. With an expensive machine like that, I would want the correct Honda engine on it.
You could also sell it as it sits and buy a new or used Honda (if you can find one), although it will be a huge hit to your wallet.

Good luck
 

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More HP and more TQ sounds like a good idea to upgrade my snowblower however does the crankshaft snout align with the factory pulley height and setup from what the Honda HSS1332ATD specs call for?

It has been 12 hours after I flooded the cylinder bore with Liquid Wrench. I still cannot turn the crankshaft and the Auger Torque Sensor throws a red light at me comically. I'm draining any fluids now and proceeding to try the ATF Acetone experiment and throw 1.5 quarts of that in the crankcase hole and let it sit longer.
I would overfill the crankcase with whatever you decide as to soak the the rod and crank if that rod is seized on crank journal.

it just seems like there is permanent damage here anyways but it's always nice to try.

all this time you could have opened up engine by now and found out what's going on.......
 

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More HP and more TQ sounds like a good idea to upgrade my snowblower however does the crankshaft snout align with the factory pulley height and setup from what the Honda HSS1332ATD specs call for?
You can get that info from HF, I think, though you might have to call and ask if its not on their website under specs for that particular engine. Measuring your Honda will yield the same info. I'd be inclined to pull the engine and take the measurements while it is on the bench. Don't forget to check mounting hole positions.

Aside from the obvious cost difference, what is parts availability and reliability like for the HF engine? If, as @vmax29 said, Honda engines are available for 6 to 800, the savings over a HF shrinks. Consider resale value of your snowblower with a HF engine.
 
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