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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Servicing the right and hydrostatic transmission (Pictures re-uploaded 10/28/18)

EDIT (10/29/2018): All the pictures were recovered and re-uploaded onto SBF site, enjoy.



This thread is for general discussion concerning the right transmission and the hydrostatic transmission found on most track/wheel assisted HS series snow blowers. Someone correct me if I am wrong but the right transmission might only be for the track assisted machines.

Current condition of the right/final gear transmission. While overhauling the blower I noticed the rubber seal, part#15 in the illustration below, had perished. I suspected it let dirt in the casing, which was later affirmed when I opened the case.

- Notice the contaminated grease.
- Bearings are fine.
- Can anyone point out what type of grease Honda has used in the gear case?

- I intend on replacing the grease.
- Change part #14
- Install new gasket, part #2.








 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Hydrostatic transmission

The main reason I had the snow blower pulled apart is to rectify the leak that the hydrostatic transmission has developed. Fluid had accumulated all around the transmission case and over the years turned into gunk due to the dirt from the surroundings. I couldnt really pin point the exact location of the leak but it seems that the oil seals are weeping.



Illustrations from the shop manual, courtesy [email protected]







here is how the transmission looks right now, its been slightly cleaned to rid some of the gunk on it.

Notice the seals around the drive shaft, pulley shaft and the dust cap on the engage/disengage lever. (part #49, 51 and 50 in the illustration above), also notice the gaskets between the rear casing and distributor plate along with gasket between front casing and distributor plate (part # 3 and 14 in the illustration above).

engage/disengage lever



right side drive shaft seal



left side drive shaft seal



pulley side seal



this picture show the two gaskets sandwiched between the three pieces of transmission case (back, distributor and front)

 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The illustrations above are to aid taking the transmission off of the chassis and disassembling it, I have asked Robert if he can kindly provide the shop manual section on reassemble as well since I'll need the torque specs on the housing bolts.
 

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I would use a high molybdenum grease or a synthetic molybdenum grease. The grease that they used just by it's looks, looks like cheap common grease. Thanks for this post, the pictures will help me find the best spot to drill a grease hole in the gearbox while it is still in the snowblower. I have choosen to NOT add a grease zerk after drilling my access hole to keep as much aluminum chips out of the case. I will use a grease needle to inject grease into gearbox and then seal the small hole with Permatex High Temp silicone because it seals far better then their common cheap stuff that is worthless as a silicone sealer. http://www.californiaperformance.com/Grease needle tip.jpg .
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I would use a high molybdenum grease or a synthetic molybdenum grease. The grease that they used just by it's looks, looks like cheap common grease. Thanks for this post, the pictures will help me find the best spot to drill a grease hole in the gearbox while it is still in the snowblower. I have choosen to NOT add a grease zerk after drilling my access hole to keep as much aluminum chips out of the case. I will use a grease needle to inject grease into gearbox and then seal the small hole with Permatex High Temp silicone because it seals far better then their common cheap stuff that is worthless as a silicone sealer. http://www.californiaperformance.com/Grease%20needle%20tip.jpg .

I'll look into that and yes the grease does feel/looks like it has passed its prime.

My only gripe with the design is the lack of a seal towards the inside of the shaft and also where the shaft from the hydro transmission comes in. As you can see form the pictures moisture/dirt has gotten in from both sides of the shaft, one side is due to the dust seal perishing and the other side from not having a seal at all.


I was also thinking about installing a quick release grease fitting, something similar to the ones I have on my JD Z445 lawn mower spindles.






and here is the grease/grease gun I use, makes greasing the spindles a breeze, couple of pumps every 5~10 hours.

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Got the scans from the shop manual, thanks again [email protected]

I cleaned up all the parts in the right transmission, just waiting on parts to come in before I put it back together.

Does any one know how much I need to torque the transmission bolts when putting the hydro back together? I havent opened it yet, waiting on the seals and gaskets to come in before i open it, change the gaskets and bolt it back together in one sitting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
So the parts finally came in and I got cracking on the service. After getting the transmission on the bench I cleaned it up real good and tried to inspect everything. Upon close inspection it turns out that the main gaskets are not the cause of the weeping/leak. The three oil seals around the main shaft, pulley shaft, faulty O ring around the neutral lever and the dust seal around the neutral lever need to be changed to rectify the issue.

While changing the seals I also came to the conclusion that the seals are meant to weep over time as there is no way they can keep all the fluid inside the transmission over the life of the snowblower. I'd also like to mention here that the transmission worked flawlessly before I decided to service everything.

I did however replace and bleed the transmission with all new Honda Hydrostatic fluid.

On the bench



Dust seal removed along with the neutral lever.



Neutral lever (notice the O ring around it, the O ring was also replaced)






The lever, new seal and a 10 mm socket to push the seal in place.




lever installed back



seal installed, also showing the socket





same process was used to replace the seals around the shaft and pulley shaft.

Here is an image showing the right side of the transmission with the seal removed.

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Gearcase rebuild

The gear case and all its components were cleaned thoroughly and all the old contaminated grease was replaced with new grease along new dust seal.

All parts cleaned and ready to go



bearings installed



all components put back together, the shop manual indicates where to apply new grease, which is pretty much everywhere.



back side



outside, notice the new seal, I am still not sold on the idea of this seal keeping all the elements out as it doesnt snap into anything, more of a floating seal.

 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Air bleeding the hydrostatic transmission

I know there are a few thread that indicate the portion of the service manual on how to air bleed the transmission, I thought I'd share a few key pointers from my experience along with the actual steps that I took.

- The transmission needs to be off of the blower and on the work bench in order to get the fluid replaced, you can not properly bleed the system while the transmission is still on the blower.

- I know the HST fluid is suppose to last the life of the blower but the color difference that I saw between the old HST fluid that I drained and the new HST fluid was astonishing. Old fluid was clear but was cloudy gray for the most part, new HST fluid is clear as water.

- In one of the steps the manual wants you the install the drive pulley on the cross shaft and rotate it, I have the TA model and the drive pulley does not fit the cross shaft due to difference in diameter. I had to use vise-grips on the cross shaft to perform this procedure.

Steps.

1) Rest the transmission facing down on the bench, with the drain bolt facing upwards.
2) Remove the drain bolt and drain washer. Start draining the HST fluid, once it slows down remove the fill cap on HST reservoir along with the diaphragm, the rest fill follow.
3) Once all the HST fluid is drained hold the reservoir one hand pour HST fluid into it, till it starts coming out from the drain hole. I had completely drained my HST, it took about 25~27 ounces before the fluid started oozing out from the drain bolt.
4) At this point install the drain bolt/washer, torque it to 29 ft/lbs.
5) Have someone help you whilst doing this as it comes in handy when the reservoir needs to be held up higher than the transmission.
6) Lay the HST flat on its bottom, you'll notice air bubbles coming up through the hose in the reservoir, move the transmission around a bit to make sure all of air comes up.
7) Add more HST fluid till the level is up to "upper limit" on the reservoir, install diaphragm and cap.
8) Push the neutral lever inwards (released position).
9) Rotate the cross shaft 10 turns anti-clockwise.
10) Pull the neutral lever outwards (engaged position).
11) Move the clutch arm all the way to the left or right before the next step.
12) Rotate the driven pulley 30 times anticlockwise. Make sure you observe the cross shaft, it needs to be turning while you rotate the driven pulley.
13) One important bit, the clutch arm will try to throb back while you are turning the driven pulley stopping the cross shaft from moving, it helps if you hold it in fully engaged (left or right) position.

I repeated steps 8~13 a couple of times to make sure all was well, checked the HST level once more.

Here is a post from [email protected] with all the above steps as listed in the service manual.
Sorry I'm late :p

The HST fluid in all Honda snowblowers is good for the life of the unit. The only regular service is to check the level and top off. Leaking units (rare) would need to be inspected and the source found. The HST fluid is not consumed like engine oil, nor does it ever really wear out. Unless you're having some kind of problem, leak, etc. there is no reason to just "change the HST fluid."

But, if you think the fluid is contaminated or other problems, there is a drain bolt, BUT, if you drain the fluid, then refill it, you must fully bleed the transmission, and to do this properly requires removing the transmission from the snowblower. I've never known someone to do this while it is still installed, and based on the bleeding procedure, it does not seem viable. Strongly suggest you don't drain the transmission, but just check and top off the fluid if it is not leaking or having any problems.


Still reading? Okay, there is a drain bolt on the lower part of the transmission case near the transmission release lever. You may need to tip the unit rearward to fully drain the case. (sorry, I don't have a good clear image of this).

When refilling, the total capacity of the transmission is 0.793 quart, and it is very important to only fill with genuine Honda HST Fluid. No other aftermarket fluid/oil is approved for use with a Honda hydrostatic transmission. FYI, Honda is NOT trying to get rich off this, the engineers had to create a special formula for the Honda HST, and no other fluid was ever tested or approved. There is a scale on the side of the fill tank with UPPER and LOWER level marks, and fluid should be filled to meet the mark matching the outdoor temp.:



Next, you must bleed the system to purge all air; here's the procedure.

1. Remember, this assumes you have removed the transmission from the unit. That procedure requires:
a. remove engine
b. remove auger housing
c. remove tension pulley / auger brake
d. remove tracks (TA models)





Resources:
Genuine Honda factory shop manual (paper only, ebay or amazon, direct from Honda, free shipping and updates for 3 years)

Amazon.com: Honda HS624 HS724 HS828 HS928 HS1132 Snow blower Service Repair Shop Manual: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Honda HS624 HS724 HS828 HS928 HS1132 Snow Blower Service Repair Shop Manual | eBay


HST Fluid:
Genuine Honda HST fluid, 1 quart bottle, Part Number 08208-HST01. Google the part number to find online, or use this link to find a local Honda dealer:

Find A Honda Dealer
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Here is a picture of old fluid removed from a 1997 model HS1132, the little bit of fluid that sits in the HST fluid resorvoir only had a slight brown tint but as you can see the removed fluid is like dirty old motor oil. New Honda HST fluid is clear as water by the way.



 

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JnC, I never saw this post when you started, thanks for the great write up:)
With all the hoopla over the new HSS, likely a bunch of "new to me" HS owners will be trickling in for advice and this will help greatly. Mods should consider this for a sticky in the Honda section, IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Putting the right transmission together (Track version) Post 1 of 4

Here is a comprehensive guide on how to put together the right transmission for the Track assisted models.

Note: Wheeled version right transmission has one less gear and the shaft runs through the middle gear right than the one shown on the outside of the three below.


Parts diagram



this is what the current gear case/transmission looked like when I opened it first, water gets in through the shaft opening over the years and spoils the OEM grease.



All parts cleaned up, got some new bearings as well as the old ones were shot.



got some RTV silicone, cleaned up gear casing.



I really wanted to install a grease fitting just in case I ever needed to throw some fresh grease in the casing, couldnt do it last time when I serviced the HS924. Checked the HS924 to see where it'd be easy to access and service the casing once everything is put back together.



marked the spot on the HS1132 casing



new fitting installed



view from within the casing



lather some grease in the hole and install the plastic gear stay like so



install gear stay washer





JnC, I never saw this post when you started, thanks for the great write up:)
With all the hoopla over the new HSS, likely a bunch of "new to me" HS owners will be trickling in for advice and this will help greatly. Mods should consider this for a sticky in the Honda section, IMO.


Indeed, I wish this information was available when I first did the flush on my first Honda, I had to gather most of it from research and through the resident Honda oracle, Robert :).

By the way the cheapest place to buy Honda HST is Partspack

https://www.partspak.com/productcar...uid-HST-12-oz-New-08208-HST02-4550p330618.htm

To do a complete flush/bleed you'd need to get at least three of the above 12 oz bottles. I wish honda still made the HST fluid quarts, it doesnt hurt to buy 2~3 bottles but I had to purchase 13 bottles over the summer to do a complete flush/bleed on my Honda H3013 lawn mower :facepalm_zpsdj194qh.
 

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Here is a picture of old fluid removed from a 1997 model HS1132, the little bit of fluid that sits in the HST fluid resorvoir only had a slight brown tint but as you can see the removed fluid is like dirty old motor oil. New Honda HST fluid is clear as water by the way.





OH!!!!! You did not have to change that........ Honda SAYS it is a LIFETIME fluid. We know better (Honda) so don't even think of changing that fluid. And then there are the "sheep" that seem to believe anything a manufacture says and think YOU are nuts for changing it. Another example of how totally off base Honda is ... they tell people to leave the break-in oil in their new cars till the oil meter says 15% which is 5,000 to 6,500 miles. Honda is the only manufacture that has a break-in oil. That is frickin NUTS to leave a factory fill in for 5,000 to 6,500 miles. The only thing the oil has is more molybdenum in it's oil. I dumped my new Honda Fit's oil at 800 miles and replaced it with a high molybdenum oil IE Schaeffer's Schaeffer Oil | Supreme 7000™ . Added to this crap the manufactures tell the common users. 1) Go easy on your brakes when they are new = WRONG 2) go easy on breaking in your motor=WRONG .
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Putting the right transmission together (Track version) Post 2 of 4

install new bearings in the case



start working on the middle bearing first. Apply some grease



install washer



apply grease on the gear and install it so, notice the notches in the middle, they need to be facing upwards.



Install the shaft





prepare the main drive shaft hole



install the washer and collar on the shaft like so and guide it through the hole





other drive shaft components.

 

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Big time thanks!

Best of the best. Official field guide material for the NAHESBA [North American Honda Extreme Snow Blower Association :)].
 
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Im currently in this process. Bought a used HS928 the counter shaft and cog were shot. How did you remove the bearings?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Putting the right transmission together (Track version) Post 4 of 4

install the small gear onto the middle shaft



install the small washer onto the gear



next, install the third gear, this one goes around the input shaft coming from the HST transmission, "Down" indication shows the side facing towards the HST shaft.





at this point I applied some RTV to the casing and lathered on some more grease




then goes on the gasket



ease on the cover/side chassis piece to the gear case, make sure everything sits in place, especially the plastic gear stay piece that you put on the chassis piece in the beginning. The grease would hold it in place when you flip the chassis piece over.

There are 6 nuts and bolts that hold everything in place, two of them have a built in collar.



line up all the holes



the nuts that go on the other side sit in place within the casing, you just have to hold them in the beginning before the bolt catches them



torque everything to 7.2lbs and you are done.





Im currently in this process. Bought a used HS928 the counter shaft and cog were shot. How did you remove the bearings?
Non of the bearings are pressed in or anything, if a bearing is sticking and is not coming off then its cause of corrosion or oxidation. To get them off of the shaft I use a bearing puller, make sure to sand the rest of the shaft before trying the bearing puller as doing so will help take it off of the shaft easily.

For the bearings inside the gear case, I heat up the area around the bearing, use some Kroil and most of the time they pop right out.
 

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