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Discussion Starter #1
I had noticed over the season that my (new to me) old Toro 421 seemed quite sloppy in the drive train. It could wander left and right a bit on its own. When held stationary, with the machine off, and the drive clutch engaged, I could rotate the machine right and left quite a bit, more so than my Toro 724. It just seemed too sloppy. As I have started to disassemble the machine for paint and maintenance this off season I took some pictures and crude measurements. With the pics of the locking pin, you can see how much slop there is between the pin and the wheel, and between the pin and the axle. Then I tried to quantify the problem. I locked down the drive clutch, clamped a thin board right next to the wheel to mark a location, and rotated the wheel on its slop. It could move back and forth one complete lug of the wheel. There are 22 lugs on the wheel, which means the wheel can rotate about 15 degrees on its own, just due to slop in the locking pin and corresponding holes. I haven't measured my other, better machine yet, but will do so at some time.

Has anyone ever looked into this type of problem, or tried to improve? I think maybe a slightly larger locking pin could help, but it looks like the wheel holes are more wore out than the axle, so there will still be slop in the wheels. Also, the holes are a bit oblong due to wear, so just up-sizing the pins wouldn't remove all of the slop. Of course I could slightly drill out the axle and the wheels, but I'm not ready for that (yet).

Thanks for looking.
 

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Have I seen similar - yes. On the one that was especially bad they'd changed out the bolts for pins like what you have. The bolts and the clip pins were not the same diameter so the holes were damaged over time.
See if the next size bigger bolt will it, if it does then get rids of those pins and use the right size bolts.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks HCBPH. To be clear, the pictured lynch pin (or klik pin) is the OEM part.
 

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It is what it is nowadays with cheap soft steel meant to be thrown away after a few years. My Snowbirds steel from fifty years ago was much harder but I still replace shafts and cross drill to fit due to parts NLA, just not as frequently as the new junk.:plain:
 

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I never measured but what you describe may be at the high end of what I'm picturing as typical with my Gilsons.

If your situation wasn't the factory fit it may be the result of frequent torque reversals. If you can work a serpentine pattern it's a lot easier on the whole drive-train.

What you need to do is make sure the countersink relieve in the axle is maintained with a file or countersink cutter. That rocking will peen the axle hole. Over time steel will rise from the shaft engaging the wheel and then getting it apart can redefine **** on earth. I make it practice to remove wheels every year or 2, inspect and dress the pin holes then clean and lube the axles.

The upside of a little slop is that minor course corrections are effortless.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Pete. The machine is 38 years old, so I am not surprised by the wear. And I'm pretty sure its not a manufacturing flaw. I take the wheels off at least once per year, and clean and smooth the axles with sandpaper, then re-grease before assembling. Just wondering if anyone has tried inexpensive ways to fix/improve. I may see if I can somehow shim the gap a bit, maybe a copper tube if I can find the right size. It's not a big deal, probably more of a challenge to improve.

Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Vermont: the condition I am referring to is the slop/play between the wheel hole and the wheel lock pin, allowing wheel rotation independent of the axle. Not the axle in its bearing/bushing. Thanks.
 

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If it's the hole through the axel, you could drill it out and sleeve it to the proper size. You could spot weld the sleeve in and grind it smooth. The wheels could have the holes welded up and redrilled to the right size but that would be a bit harder. Final option would go with a slightly bigger bolt, maybe a metric one that fits and takes up more of that space.


Just some thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
thanks for the ideas HCBPH. I'm going to see if a slightly larger pin will work. The problem is that the enlarged hole is actually a bit oblong (front to back), so not sure how much larger I can go.
 

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Can you get into the wheel to drill it for the larger pin?

Also I'd be concerned about weakening the shaft with further metal removal.
 
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