Snowblower Forum banner
41 - 60 of 90 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
Thing to do first is identify the engine , they are not made by Toro , they are one of several Chinese makers and I am sure there are available options out there once you know what to look at . Any chance of pictures of the engine so we can sort out what it is ?
Any parts thru Toro are going to be top dollar.
FIrst, remember that the video in my first post gives a pretty good idea of the operating position of the engine. The head-end of the engine points directly at the operator during snow blowing.

Yes, I can provide photos, but to get a really good idea of my model 38757, within serial number range: 406830000 - 408999999 , give the following video a peruse. The only difference that I can see between ours and the one in the video is that ours has an electric start and quick-chute system.

In order to have a good record of disassembling the engine with which I could reference while re-assembling, I took some photos. I've also included a screen-capture taken of the identifying numbers on various parts of the engine, including the engine, as well as the first photo which shows the operator end of the blower when completely assembled (notice where the recoil mechanism's cord disappears into the shroud) .
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Motor vehicle Mower

Motor vehicle Automotive tire Bicycle saddle Bicycle part Wood

Motor vehicle Electrical wiring Wood Automotive design Automotive exterior

Hood Automotive tire Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Bumper

Automotive lighting Automotive fuel system Motor vehicle Fuel tank Wheel

Wheel Tire Automotive lighting Automotive tire Hood


I'd really rather not completely assemble the engine with gas tank, etc. at the moment, but, if it would help, I could put the crank in the block, attach the head and take photos of the result from various angles. Let me know.

I've taken some quick looks at various engines for sale as replacements for various models of various blowers and other horizontal-shaft equipment. I see two problems with them. First, the location of the recoil mechanism and, second, the location of the oil filler hole opposite where it is now, albeit on the same side of the engine -- the latter would make oil changes difficult.

But I really would like to find out who manufactures Toro's engines. Whoever does that probably manufactures the same engine with a different label for other pieces of equipment by other vendors. Below are some characters that appear on some of the parts of the engine and the engine itself.
Font Rectangle Number Screenshot Parallel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Just an idea, what about replacing the whole engine with another Loncin 252?

According to the toro manuals, the engine is a different part number between the two models, but I’m guessing the only real difference is the Powermax models have a fuel shutoff valve.

Great find! If I can find some good photos of the engine, that might be a relatively inexpensive way to go, IF it has the correct crankcase cover that has the right threaded openings in the right places. Maybe it would be possible to create a hybrid engine with parts from new and "old" engines.

Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Great find! If I can find some good photos of the engine, that might be a relatively inexpensive way to go, IF it has the correct crankcase cover that has the right threaded openings in the right places. Maybe it would be possible to create a hybrid engine with parts from new and "old" engines.

Thanks again.
the big question would be if the crankshafts are the same (output shafts)

I would call that outfit tomorrow and see if they can tell you and snap some pictures. I seriously doubt that Loncin would change castings for something like the crankcase cover.

At least to me, I would be most concerned about the crankshaft, but of course I’ve seen stranger things and perhaps a boss or post is just enough different….
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
A bit late , yes that's a Loncin and I agree likely a standard size crank and probably the side cover has the same bolt pattern . If you can get one of those that would be they way to go.
Should be a distributor in Canada .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #49 ·
the big question would be if the crankshafts are the same (output shafts)

I would call that outfit tomorrow and see if they can tell you and snap some pictures. I seriously doubt that Loncin would change castings for something like the crankcase cover.

At least to me, I would be most concerned about the crankshaft, but of course I’ve seen stranger things and perhaps a boss or post is just enough different….
I'm going to follow your suggestion. Thanks!

On the website you linked, I noticed and quickly downloaded the following service manual for the 212cc Loncin "200F(D)S-210F(D)S" engine. That manual is a gold-mine of information! I believe that most of the various specifications within it also apply to the 252cc engine.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,234 Posts
A little late here, as well as being uncertain regarding Canada, but in the US it is expressly illegal to void a warrantly simply because you opened it. They are required to prove that either something that you did or a part you used caused the damage to be able to legally void. (Magnussen-Moss warranty act . . . )

I just went through this "game" with an electronics vendor . . . network switch died, and warranty states all covered for life except the power supply, which is one year, so opened it and took measurements . . . . supply was fine, so submitted for warranty but they tried to void due to opening. A cite of the law as well as complaints filed with both State and Fed, along with a reminder that it was opened after failing, and magically, a month later it was covered, but had to escalate and push hard.

Granted, different equipment, but almost an identical scenario . . . certainly can't hurt to give it a try.

Again, not sure about Canada, but if the law is similar, call BS on this and escalate to someone with a brain at Toro whose main function is not just to deny claims . . .

My $.02 . .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
A little late here, as well as being uncertain regarding Canada, but in the US it is expressly illegal to void a warrantly simply because you opened it. They are required to prove that either something that you did or a part you used caused the damage to be able to legally void. (Magnussen-Moss warranty act . . . )

I just went through this "game" with an electronics vendor . . . network switch died, and warranty states all covered for life except the power supply, which is one year, so opened it and took measurements . . . . supply was fine, so submitted for warranty but they tried to void due to opening. A cite of the law as well as complaints filed with both State and Fed, along with a reminder that it was opened after failing, and magically, a month later it was covered, but had to escalate and push hard.

Granted, different equipment, but almost an identical scenario . . . certainly can't hurt to give it a try.

Again, not sure about Canada, but if the law is similar, call BS on this and escalate to someone with a brain at Toro whose main function is not just to deny claims . . .

My $.02 . .
Not sure of the Canadian laws either but Toro certainly should have listened instead of just blowing it off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #54 ·
A little late here, as well as being uncertain regarding Canada, but in the US it is expressly illegal to void a warrantly simply because you opened it. They are required to prove that either something that you did or a part you used caused the damage to be able to legally void. (Magnussen-Moss warranty act . . . )

I just went through this "game" with an electronics vendor . . . network switch died, and warranty states all covered for life except the power supply, which is one year, so opened it and took measurements . . . . supply was fine, so submitted for warranty but they tried to void due to opening. A cite of the law as well as complaints filed with both State and Fed, along with a reminder that it was opened after failing, and magically, a month later it was covered, but had to escalate and push hard.

Granted, different equipment, but almost an identical scenario . . . certainly can't hurt to give it a try.

Again, not sure about Canada, but if the law is similar, call BS on this and escalate to someone with a brain at Toro whose main function is not just to deny claims . . .

My $.02 . .
Thanks very much for your input!!

This prompts me to do something which I initially decided not to do -- post an image of Toro's refusal. My favorite sentence begins with "We can not control.............."

Font Screenshot Number Rectangle Parallel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Yup, just blow a customer off , that's the way to keep them coming back !!

At least at my time at Stihl Canada you could actually ask for the service/Tech dept. and talk to a person , not an Email robot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Really gets me when I see a company do that , it should be on a more personal case by case basis.......at least that's how we did it. Gave me great satisfaction to sort out issues for customers and a lot of times it was the dealer who had diagnosed it wrong and screwed up . We preached proper testing at our service schools but it seemed most felt it took too much time.
Some times it came back to bite our dealers....sometimes they lost our product because of THEIR actions !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #57 · (Edited)
Below is a photo I took 5 minutes ago of the crankcase installed loosely on the block. Notice how this compares with the amazingly detailed diagram of the Loncin 212cc engine in the pdf service manual that I linked a few posts ago.
Automotive tire Bicycle part Motor vehicle Rim Engineering


Product Motor vehicle Font Engineering Auto part


The two cases look mighty similar to me, including the oil fill provision at the top of the case. On my case, the port on the case is there, but blocked. Apparently the port is used to fill oil on the Loncin. But on the Loncin, there is available the port where oil is added on our unit. It is probably blocked on the Loncin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
Looks good , if you do get a complete engine you will likely have to swap some things , I see no reason why the case cover would be an issue to change . Watch that seal sitting against the crank journal ! 😬
What are you seeing for the crank journal size , the same ?

They may have a few different variations available too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #59 · (Edited)
Looks good , if you do get a complete engine you will likely have to swap some things , I see no reason why the case cover would be an issue to change . Watch that seal sitting against the crank journal ! 😬
What are you seeing for the crank journal size , the same ?

They may have a few different variations available too.
I do not have my neighbor's 2-inch micrometer available, but with my 6 inch digital caliper, I measure both end-journals to be the same --1.1000" OD.

What should I "watch" for on the "seal sitting against the crank journal"? There are two crankshaft oil seals in this engine -- one at the output-end of the crank, the other at the flywheel end.

The centers of four bolt holes surrounding the crank seal on my crankcase cover are exactly 65mm apart, exactly as shown in the Loncin diagram above.

At the end of the day, the engine in my unit was manufactured by Loncin. They probably also manufactured the crankshaft and machined all the journals, including the rod journal that is now out of round. It is possible that Loncin has sub-contractors that manufactured the crank and machined it. Regradless, Loncin manufactured the engine. Now I have to decide whether or not to buy another either through Toro at a high cost, or another Loncin-engine vendor at a much lower cost ............... or get the crank journal machined locally and know with certainty that it is round.

First thing tomorrow I will call a few engine machine shops in Edmonton and see what they recommend. If I don't go that route I'll try to find some Canadian vendor of Loncin engines and see if I can obtain a service manual of the 252cc.

Thanks again to all of those trying to help me out.
 
41 - 60 of 90 Posts
Top