Most small engines are made in China this days (if I am not mistaken even most Ariens have Chinese engines).
You may have to get a different product with a US made engine, or a Honda.
It is odd that it would had happenned to both of them though.

I think that perhaps most manufacturers would not cover carburetor clean up (or replacement) if it is caused by ethanol (that is what I was told when I purchased my Stihl chainsaw and backpack blower).

 

It's a bit much to condemn an entire manufacturer and country for one machines problem(s).
My poorly maintained, hand me down 2008 2410 starts easy, runs well and hasn't let me down once.
It does have the common problem of being too lean and surging when not eating snow. That said just because mine runs good doesn't make me want to say it's the best just like having one machine with a problem shouldn't condemn the manufacturer or product.

 

It's a bit much to condemn an entire manufacturer and country for one machines problem(s).

That is true..but we also get the opposite here in this forum all the time:
"my one Chinese harbor freight engine has been great..therefore all Chinese engines are great." it happens both ways! as always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

also, he isn't basing it on one machine, he is basing it on two.

Scot

 

Mechanic in a bottle works pretty good without taking off the carb. Try it if it happens again

 

About going to try this, thanks.

 

I'd like to preface this post by stating that I used to work as a tech for a small engine shop that did a ton of warranty work for MTD and Craftsman. I've probably worked on more outdoor power equipment than 95% of the people on this forum. I've worked on hundreds of small engines from Briggs & Stratton, Tecumseh, Kohler, Honda, Kawasaki, and various Chinese Honda clones. I'm not saying this to seem arrogant, simply to state that I have a much larger sample size to go by when looking for things like pattern failures.

Those Chinese Powermore engines are great. They're far quieter, more efficient, start easier, run better and are more reliable than those old Tecumsehs ever were. The single biggest problem with any small engine today is the fuel. Even the ethanol free gas just isn't the same as gas used to be. Put current gas in one of those old, reliable, American engines and it'll act just as bad (and usually worse) than one of those Chinese engines.

Now that said MTD does have a horrible warranty, but the problems you're having aren't normally covered by anyone's warranty. It's not a manufacturer's defect, so it really doesn't fall under the warranty. If you want my honest opinion of the best way to prevent this from happening in the future do this: When it gets near the end of the season starting adding fuel stabilizer to the jerry can when you buy gas. After the last use of the season put the machine away with a full tank. If you drain the tank it just seems to make the carb corrode and end up full of white powder.

 

It's a pity the Troy Bilt name no longer means top of the line, quality machines.
Back in the day, when the were owned by Garden Way, their rototillers were ranked one of the best you could buy. They even had a lifetime warranty on some of the components.
When I sold my Garden Way built Horse tiller last spring, I cleaned it up and it sold for $900.00 in a matter of hours. MTD bought them in 2001 and you know the rest of the story.

 

It's a pity the Troy Bilt name no longer means top of the line, quality machines.
Back in the day, when the were owned by Garden Way, their rototillers were ranked one of the best you could buy.

True. And this can be said of so many companies. I sure do miss those days of those homey magazine ads that made you feel good about their product, your country and life overall. So many wonderful brands have been compromised.
Wheel Horse, Troy Bilt, Briggs, Kohler, Porter Cable, etc..
Lay the blame wherever you choose whether it be corporate greed, business economics, govt. overregulation or simple necessity... The day of buying a piece of ope and expecting it to last a lifetime is gone forever.

 

I'll probably get some blowback on this comment but ( this is solely my personal opinion) I would never drain fuel system and run the carburetor dry. I always use stabilized fuel (Startron and Seafoam) and never any problems. I will add this that if the gasoline is already old by the end of of the season whether it be snowblower or lawnmower etc, I will drain that old gas and add fresh, stabilized gas and run the engine fr a few minutes.
As I first stated, this is my way of avoiding carb issues and I've always lived by if it aint broke don't fix it advice.

This past year I didn't do this. I just left the old gas in the blowers qnd they all started a few days ago. The gas that was in them wasn't very old.

 

Seems those chinese "powermore" engines are "powerless". :banghead:

 

I'm struck by the fact that two different motors sitting in the same storage area and serviced the same way had the same problem. It tends to lead me away from the "chinese junk" theory and towards other possible causes. Just sayin'.

 

Try reading about other people's experiences. It's almost the same as mine.

 

This country is going downhill. I remember buying something in the 80's and 90's and it would last for a long time. Nowadays it's all quantity, not quality.

 

I would say 1950's, 60's and 70's it was made to last..
80's was the beginning of the end..
and by the 90's the cheapness was here to stay..

Scot

 

I have a 23-year-old American-made Briggs & Stratton engine that I use at my mother's home. Oil was changed every 3 seasons, 2nd spark plug, original air filter, original carb, TWO SEASONS I USED OLD TWO-STROKE FUEL, used stale gas most of the time.

The thing still starts in 1 or 2 pulls!!!!!

That's quality right there!!

 

nothing you guys says is wrong, and the reliability on these clones has not been proven yet, but considering all the **** that people put them through hot rodding them and holding up fine, and the fact that all of my clones including my two that came from a golf course go kart track all run fine and start super easily and run so smooth with fresh gas, they cant be bad motor. i will however say that the powermores i dont like as much because all the parts are significantly different(i still think of them as clones, but heavily modified clones)

 

Seems the one factor in common with your problem is emptying the tank and running dry. I never do this in fact I do the opposite, I fill the tank to the fullest and start once in a while to move some newer gas through the carb. Been doing this for 40 years and never have a problem starting any engine.

 

For several years I was doing the "keep gas in over the summer" method..but then I switched to the "full drain" method..There are people who say: "I fully drain the gas for storage. Been doing this for 40 years and never have a problem starting any engine."
In reality, Its likely either method is fine..
If you do the "drain the gas" method, you have to be really diligent to make sure you get as much gas out as humanly possible..Here is a post I made a year ago on this topic:

most people do either:

1. Full gas in the whole system, tank, fuel lines, and carb.
or.
2. No gas in the system at all.

There are pros and cons of each:

1. Full gas in the system, tank, fuel lines, and carb.

Pro: Gas in the lines is said to keep things "lubricated", keeps gaskets from drying out.
Pro: if you have gas in all the lines, and full in the carb, in theory there is too much gas for it to evaporate away completely, causing varnish.

Con: In reality, the gas can still dry out in places, like the fuels lines and in the carb, causing varnish and sticky gunk issues..starting up the machine once a month or so might mitigate that problem.
Con: Gas goes bad quickly these days..even with stabilizer I wouldn't trust gas that is more than a month old..which means after 7 months of the summer storage season, you have a full gallon of gas, per machine, that is basically useless..you have to drain it and dispose of it. It is said you can slowly dump it into the car's gas tank, but I wouldn't want to do that to my car.
Con: if you do your annual maintenance in the fall, you have to drain out the gas before you can tip the machine up on its handlebars to do the internal lubing/greasing..easier if the gas just isnt there to start with.

2. No gas in the system at all.

Pro: No gas to dry out and gunk up! in theory.
Pro: Dont have to start up and run the machine once a month, you can just leave it alone all summer.
Pro: in the fall, there is no gas to get in the way of annual lubing/grease/seasonal maintenance. can tip the machine up on the bucket with no gas to drip out.
(some do the annual maintenance in the spring, I do it in the fall.)
Pro: in the fall, there is no old stale gas to deal with to get the machine up and running..just fill the tank with fresh gas, and she should fire right up.

Con: Can you really get *all* the gas out? perhaps not..there is a chance some will be left behind in small areas, like the gas lines, which could dry out and cause varnish..how real is this concern? dont know, but IMO its not a major concern.
Con: In theory, gaskets can "dry out"..IMO, this one is also more myth than reality..people have been draining the gas from the equipment, for storage, for 60 years..never hear of real problems from the "full drain" method..

For a few years, I did method 1 during the summer..leaving gas in. I have since changed my mind and now I do the "full drain" method..I think its better to simply have no gas in the system at all..drain the gas tank, disconnect the gas line to the carb, let the gas drip out, remove the carb bowl, wipe it clean with a rag..leave the carb apart, gas lines loose, gas cap off with a rag stuffed loosly in the gs cap hole (to prevent dirt from getting in) and let the whole thing sit for a few days..to allow things to "air out" and let the little bits of remaining gas evaporate away..then re-assemble everything, and shes ready to snooze away the next 7 months..

Scot

 

I was a staunch believer that the US made the best small engines and hated the 'Chinese junk' motors.

until..

I bought a new Toro with the Loncin Chinese engine.. Boy was I wrong. It is the easiest starting AND quietest piece of equipment I own including two Hondas and three Briggs motors.
Period.

Old guys can learn new things

 

When I bought my lawn tractor my dad told me "it won't hold up, nothing holds up these days, they don't make them like they used to, all this new stuff is crap".

That was 1993. I still have the mower. It's true that I've fixed a lot of little stuff on it but the major parts are all original.

I'm thinking about trading it in for a new one, maybe one of those zero turn things. I'll do my homework again, like I did in 1993. And I have little doubt that I'll be able to find something that will last me another 25 years.

 

My end of season routine (snowblower, mower, etc) is to make sure the tank is at least half full, add stabilizer and then run the engine for a few minutes. After it has cooled off I remove the spark plug, squirt some motor oil in the cylinder (position it so the intake valve is open) and crank it several times. Then put the spark plug back in and put it away. I have been doing this for decades and have never had any problem starting it up again for the next season. I initially get some smoke as the excess oil burns off but that's it.

 

read up in your owners manual as to propper off season prepping if any is to be done.. and if you fallowed it.. reclaim your warrantee.. if you have ANY receipts showing E-free or E-10 or better fuel.. show them

 

Us old guys remember solid US made OPE, tools, etc. This coming up generation is getting use to the idea of every thing being throw away and made in some 3rd world country. That is all they know with the exception of their parents and grand parents complaining.
50 yrs from now middle aged people will be bitching that the Chinese don't make things as good as they use to. If consumers totally demanded quality it would happen..... but too many chase the lowest or lower priced stuff all the time.

 

50 yrs from now middle aged people will be bitching that the Chinese don't make things as good as they use to.

50 years after that it will be those lazy Martians and their crappy quality.

 

Quality ope is out there but few people will pay for it. The vast majority of people shop on price which is why you have cheap machines that don't last. Trust me I owned a few gems like a 28" troybilt storm. I never have fuel issues since I use stabilizer and store equipment properly but the lack of quality was evident. Four years worth of broken cables, belts and absolute lack luster performance. Sent it down the line when I saved up to buy an Ariens. I'm not picking on troybilt, it's the same everywhere. I wish John Deere didn't even make lawn tractors because it ruined their reputation. Should have left it at garden tractors with mowing decks on them. But then again people gripe about the price on a fully capable quality x700 series when 30 years ago consumers paid equivalent money for a 318 and they sold the heck out of them. People got cheap.

 

Yeah, I am late into the snowblower game, but after tearing into the newer chonda motors used on everything compared to older Tecumseh and Briggs motors I am jaded. I would rather deal with old and reliable engine tech than take a chance that you get a poor QC'd newer engine.

That is my concern with the new Simplicity I just got. It has the newer "made in china" Briggs engine on it and I am concerned about long-term.

For redoing older machines I basically have set a hard-limit on anything with the newer chinese motors to rebuild. That is why when I came across the 2006 Cub Cadet 528SWE I am redoing the big decision factor (outside of how good of a deal it was) was the fact it was a good running Tecumseh 10hp on it. It initially ran poorly, but I could tell it was because of a gummed up carb due to improper storage, so I promptly swapped out the carb for a new adjustable one and it runs awesome. Since it is adjusted no-where near as lean as the factory fixed carb, I fully expect for the engine on it to outlast the rest of the machine. So I am probably going to keep this machine long-term. Turns out it was the last year model Cub Cadet to use Tecumseh engines as the next year they all went with Briggs for a year and then chonda motors the year after.

But even for mowers and such, I have a old-school Briggs I/C engine on my 33" Garden-Way manufactured Troy-Bilt wide-area mower, and an actual Honda GCV160 on the backup HRZ216 mower.

I have a 2012-vintage Brute mower with a Briggs Quantum 7.25 engine on it, but I swear that thing has burned oil from day one. No real smoke to be seen, except on startup, but it burns through a bit of oil in a season. And it has stripped the spark plug hole (which is VERY common on these I found out, so much so that most dealers that do repairs on these have heads in stock because of it). I have NEVER stripped a park plug hole in my life before this mower. It is really ****-poor that they would develop a part that has that kind of problem. I personally fixed it with a thread-sert so this head will never have that problem again. But, I will be selling this mower off in the spring as well (I need a zero-turn for all the beds I installed).

Luckily all the other OPE I have is either non-critical (like a Troy-bilt edger with a 5hp Briggs engine, or the Powerstroke pressure washer with Subaru engine) or I have backups (such as a 2-cycle Troy-Bilt weed whacker as a backup for my Cub Cadet 4-cycle weed whacker, or Poulan Pro 25cc 2-cycle blower as a backup for my Ryobi 2-cycle backpack blower). But for stuff I *HAVE* to rely upon for heavy-duty use (snowblowers/lawn mowers) I want reliable engine tech.

The ONLY chonda motor I have is on my 3 year old plate compactor, and that I only now use non-ethanol premium gas in with Seafoam. I once had to tear into the carb because the first year I used 10% ethanol reformulated gas in it and the next spring it wouldn't run with the choke off. I took it apart and cleaned it up and it runs like new again. But after that I made sure to only use non-reformulated premium with Seafoam in everything, and I don't use that piece of equipment outside of paving projects around here, so that is maybe once a year for a few days. After I redo the front walkway pavers this next spring I am probably going to sell the compactor off.

 

Just Nostalgia. I am in my early 50's and I too can remember the poor quality automobiles built before the 1990's which would rust out in just a few years and the old fuel inefficient V8 engines would burn oil and be totally shot by 100,000 miles and how they used to handle like ocean liners and how the Japanese needed to teach Detroit how to make high quality fun to drive automobiles. As to old Tecumseh's engines they do not impress me too much. Flat head cool bore all aluminum designs with bushings instead of ball bearing supported crankshaft they were blown technologically out of the water once Honda came out with the GX240 in the late 1980's. The new Honda commercial series engines were quiet and efficient and blew the old flat head Briggs and Tecumseh’s away in its performance and reliability. The Chinese Honda clones are basically copies of the Honda engines and the Honda patent has expired so anyone can make them now. How many of you guys own flat head engine automobiles anymore? As the the bodies of the blowers from the 1970's they tended to robust and well made and I now own a repowered 1973 Gilson made Montgomery Ward 8/26 but the old breaker point ignition flat head engines were not anywhere near as reliable as small modern OHV engines made today. If the old 8hp Briggs engine would have ran well I would have kept it on the Gilson made machine but it would puff blue smoke and oil foul the spark plug and the old Updraft Briggs carburetors were known for warping where the the fuel bowel attaches to the throttle body. I too have handled a wrench in my life so I know what I am talking about.

 

My current habits are to run that Carb DRY. I run it and the tank dry. I play with the choke to get every drop of fuel the heck out of there.
Then an hour or two later I will restart it to make sure that puppy is dry.

Seems to work for me.

I use stabil (blue marine blend) and I still had a carb go south on me. The gas is just not what it use to be. So for 9 months of the year, if that engine won't run, I drain them.

 

My Snapper is a 2003 22 inch and haven't had any trouble, I bought it new for a whopping $850 before trading in a pretty new Yard Machines. Granted I remember a few seasons it didn't get used at all so in the 13 years it probably saw less than 50 hours (would take me about an hour to clear a 2 foot snowfall) and 6-12" is more common from a decent storm.

Anyway, is there a reason why we couldn't use Techron or something? B&S stabilizer advertises it has detergents but I don't see that on most fuel treatments.

 

A note about Honda engines.
Honda makes great engines, but I had a problem with 1 once.

I bought a 8 HP leaf blower a few years back. I recall the dealer had to pull the cord a few times to start it up. It ran and it blew like crazy so I bought the machine for $800 plus tax.
It would start on 1 pull when cold but it wouldn't start hot or warm. The following season I complained about this and I had to pay for the carb to be replaced. Over $100 I recall. Honda would not give you a free repair because they blamed me for the fuel problem. 3 year warrantee bla bla bla.

So it happens with all makes. Today's gas just is not as good as we used as kids. Plus if you get a bad one and it's a carb issue (from the first day or 2 years later) expect to pay to get it fixed.

The new Briggs and Stratton engines seem fine. I have a new power washer, 3 snow blowers (I sold the smallest last fall) and a chipper shredder and they all run great.

Change the oil often and watch the gas going in them and you will be fine.

 

Here is my opinion of the powermore...

I bought my house in 2009, leaves were a disaster as I live in a rural area.

Summer 2010 I go to Merchandise Pickup at Sears and they have a Yard Man leaf vac for $149 in the clearance row. I just bought it to try and ease my cleanup if only forma year or two.

Here we are 2016. That engine has been run hard. Hundreds of hours.

Really the largest issue I ever had was it is nearly impossible to start hot. I've always had to let it cool 15 minutes for a restart.

Always ran synthetic oil after the original oil change with a zddp additive, change the air filter every 75hrs. I'm more concerned about the bag than the engine. My dad has an old Craftsman with a Briggs engine and the bag went before the engine. I'm probably on the same path.