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Upgrading your snowblower lights to LED lights (Please see 1st post edit/mouseover this link)

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1.1M views 1.6K replies 274 participants last post by  FarmerBob  
#1 ·
[Edit: LED technology has improved exponentially since this thread was started. Be aware that earlier posts may be somewhat outdated, and that you will likely find the most useful information in later updates. Y.R.]

In this thread, we'll talk about the do's and don'ts of LED headlight upgrades for your snowblower, and post videos and pictures of our successes.
There are many models of snowblowers that have a headlight circuit, In most cases, you can find a single wire that registers at anywhere from 12v to 20v AC (with no load) that is located somewhere on the engine, many times under the gas tank. Halogen lights are the typical light that comes with many of our snowblowers. Many of us want much more light than what the halogen bulb can give us, as well as better reliability than a halogen bulb. The search for something brighter and more reliable ends with the LED light. LED's (Light Emitting Diodes) are extremely efficient, very bright, and have thousands of hours of reliable use.
Since the lighting circuit is typically AC current at somewhere between 40-60hertz, if you just attach an LED light to the circuit you'll get pulsing light (think on and off 40-60 times a second) This is caused by the nature of an LED, because an LED is polarity sensitive, and has no warm-up or cool down time when compared to a halogen bulb filament, the LED will flicker noticeably. The flickering of an LED on AC current is mildly annoying to many people, but VERY annoying when you are attaching it to a moving object like a snowblower. An LED that is in motion when attached to AC current (for reasons I won't even begin to get into) flickers much more noticeably. To test this for yourself, take a strand of LED Christmas lights, plug them in, and then swing them in front of you at arm's length, you'll see a strobing or flickering effect.
You can see many LED headlight upgrade videos on youtube like this one, where you can definitely see the flickering or strobing of the LED's. You can see the effect the flicker has on the video camera, you get weird tracks that go from top to bottom of the video frame.
1. EXAMPLE OF IMPROPER LED LIGHT INSTALL- NOTICE THE FLICKERING
2. EXAMPLE OF YET AGAIN AN IMPROPER LED LIGHT INSTALL- NOTICE THE FLICKERING
This is what it looks like once you add a bridge rectifier, even though you’ll see a tiny bit of flicker in the video, in person there is none, you also can notice that there is no “tracking” effect like in the other videos.

The problem of light flicker is solved by using a full wave bridge rectifier.

A bridge rectifier takes AC current and changes it into DC current using 4 diodes.

By connecting the positive and negative from your LED light(s) to the DC output of your bridge rectifier, and then connecting your single headlight circuit wire to one of the AC inputs of the bridge rectifier (it doesn't matter which AC input) and then attaching a wire from the metal of your snowblower to the other AC input you will have light! For safety purposes, it is recommended that you place a fuse on the headlight circuit wire before the bridge rectifier which should be about 5 amps rated fast blow, and then a fuse on the positive wiring between your bridge rectifier and your LED light that should be about ~1amp fast blow fuses. These fuse ratings are assuming you are using a headlight circuit that is rated for ~1amp at about 18volts, some headlight circuits are rated for 2, 3, or more amps, so using an amperage calculator like this one can help with both your LED light selection and your fuse selection. Volts/Amps/Watts Converter
Here's a pic of how I installed my bridge rectifier, I mounted it right next to my keyed switch that is on my handlebar console. I also used heat sink paste to couple the bridge rectifier’s metal casing to the console’s metal. I know this is way overkill, but my bridge rectifier came with the paste, and it was an easy application of some paste. The bridge rectifier I used is rated at 50amps 100volts KBPC5010 Bridge Rectifier | Alltronics

UPDATE: Using two 2200mfd 50v capacitors may be needed to clean up the voltage ripple that comes off of the DC output on your bridge rectifier. Some LED lights are sensitive to this ripple and may fail prematurely. Simply adding these capacitors in parallel on the DC output side of the bridge rectifier is a good precaution. Wire in the Capacitor(s) between the LED light(s) and the bridge rectifier. So the positive and negative of the bridge rectifier will go to the positive and negative of the capacitor. Then the positive and negative of the capacitor then get wired to the LED(s) positive and negative.

When choosing your LED lighting you typically have spotlights or flood lights available. Spotlights have a more pinpoint dispersion with very little side spill of light. Flood lights illuminate a wider area, and with the short distances (from LED light to relevant distance in front of your snowblower) you’ll want as wide dispersion as possible, or else you’ll get a tiny area in front of you illuminated. I made sure to get floodlights that were rated for voltage below what my snowblower headlight circuit tests at and above, so being that my snowblower headlight circuit tests at 18volts I picked a set of LED floodlights that were rated for 9-32 volts. I wanted to make sure that I would never be putting the floodlights in danger with whatever voltage the headlight circuit was producing, even a small voltage peak is accounted for. The floodlights I chose are 9 watts each, which is as much as my headlight circuit is rated for.
For those that appreciate a short(ish) video with some basic points noted here is a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZwebMaiyBY
 
#945 ·
Anyone know if using a different rectifier would cause the light to burn out almost immediately? Without checking I used a KBPC2504 (25amp 400v) instead of the KBPC5010 (50amp 1000v) and the light worked until went full throttle and then the light immediately burnt out. I ordered another light but don't want install until I can figure out why it fried.

Thanks!
 
#946 ·
I don't think the rectifier is your problem.
It's more likely that you are exceeding the lamp voltage ratings.
Do you have a capacitor on the rectifier output? did you measure the UN-LOADED(before you connect the lamps) voltage being fed to your lamps(both AC and DC)?.
HTH
JerryR
 
#949 ·
Got my setup up and running. This was a rejuvenation project on my friends HS624.

I decided to use a plastic enclosure and mount it where the electric start would be if equipped. I went with an 8 amp 400v full bridge rectifier because it was a third the price of the 25 or 50amp rectifiers most people use. Its also rated for 4 times the amount of amps i'll be using. Will it stand up to 1.8 amps over the long haul, time will tell. Its compact size is very helpful for fitting the capacitors in the small box. I originally had a singe 1000 µF capacitor then decided to double it for the extra smoothening which help eliminate the ever so slight flicker at idle.

Super Bright

12v 50w lighting coil according to parts list
27watt led 6.5" fixture
operating rage 10v-32v

8amp 400v Full bridge rectifier.
2(x) 1000µF 30v capacitors


Multimeter readings

AC Readings No load
Idle volts 10vac
Full volts 19.8vac

DC readings no load
Idle volts 9.8vdc
Full volts 40vdc - Checked with 3 different multimeters. Decided to put a resistive load on the circuit to see how much the voltage would drop.
- Tested with a 3156 bulb which just so happens to be 27 watts. Voltage dropped to 15... Perfect.

DC readings Loaded 27watts.
Idle volts 9.2vdc
Full volts 15.2 vdc

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#952 ·
It’s an electrical project box. I have a store nearby called Wayne electronics that has walls full of diodes, resistors, capacitors, wires, connectors...

It’s a wealth of anything electrical.

I drilled a hole in the side and added a rubber grommet then just ran wires into it. Kept the hole at the bottom to keep water out.
 
#956 ·
Hi Folks
My 2018 Honda 928ATCD has the LED light,I like to add another Led light,as the one on it is fairly low and dosen't give of that much light.My question,is could I connect another light in parallel with the exciting one,if so what watt wattage would I need without taking power away from charging the battery or overloading the circuit.
 
#959 ·
I could not find an exact rating for the lighting coil on the HSS. For my HSS Decided to air on the side of caution and assume that the coil is maxed out by the existing lamp and that the on board battery is the best option for a power source.

After a bunch of uses last season the charging coil has no problem keeping the battery fully charged with my 40watts of additional lighting.
 
#957 ·
Hi everyone. I've been reading through this thread and have gotten to about page 8 of 58. I can't wait anymore, I have to ask - has anyone just connected two LED's, one forward, one backward, across the AC coming off the snowblower? Seems like one would get the positive peaks, the other would get the negative peaks. You might not need a rectifier.

I experimented with just one, and it flickered like crazy at idle, but heck, I can see the halogen flicker at idle. Crank the thing up to full throttle, which is where you're going to run it anyway, and you can hardly notice it. And if you had two LED's flickering alternately, you really wouldn't notice.

Also, does anyone know what kind of power these snowthrower engines put out? I've got a 2011 Ariens Pro 28 with the 420 cc Briggs. I have several LED floodlights. I got a great deal on Amazon a while ago - eight lights, 18W 6-LED's, 9-32VDC. The halogen light is 20W. Seems like two LED's connected as I've describe wouldn't draw more than 20W, but I'll have to try it out with an ammeter in-line and see what I get. I might be able to borrow a scope and see if the resulting waveform is what I'm expecting.

I know some people have said some of their LED's didn't survive very long. I'm wondering if they just had their maximum voltage exceeded?

I tried to upload a video (short, under 1M) but it I couldn't attach it. It just kind of bounced out of the Drag Files Here box.

Bill
 
#967 ·
jonnied12: Very very cool! I am trying to become more of an electrical/electronics guy, so learning how to see what is going on through the use of test equipment is helpful to understanding. Bookmarked for future possible purchase. Thanks buddy!
 
#969 · (Edited)
Ok, long post here, I wanted to record "voltage" and "watt" readings today using my Fluke meter and my Watt's UP meter to see what my Snowblower's stator is putting out.
I also quickly hooked up the O-Scope to the AC side to see what it reads as far as voltages at different speeds.
I am not going to post those results yet as they were just quick samples. I am not sure about the accuracy of those readings as far as voltage goes because the readings did not follow what my Fluke reported at full, mid, and idle speed. Is the scope more accurate? I don't know yet. I will test soon to find out what the actual truth is.
I will tell you this though. The stator AC frequency is 175.4 Hz at full throttle. Assuming the engine is running at 3600 RPM, it works out to 20.52 RPM per HZ. Is this related to how many "poles" and "magnets" in the stator and flywheel? I don't know.
Anyway, here is what I measured today before I got too COLD.


AC (RMS)Voltage Readings using a Fluke Multimeter.
AC Voltage @ Idle - no load- 10.4V
AC Voltage @ Mid Throttle - no load- 12.1V
AC Voltage @ Full Throttle - no load- 14.7V
AC Voltage @ Idle with stock 18 Watt 1141 Bulb- 9.6V
AC Voltage @ Mid Throttle with stock 18 Watt 1141 Bulb- 11.7V
AC Voltage @ Full Throttle with stock 18 Watt 1141 Bulb- 14V
Rectified DC Voltage Readings using a "Watt's UP" meter from my electric RC flying days.
DC Voltage @ Idle - no load- 8.9V
DC Voltage @ Mid Throttle - no load- 10.75V
DC Voltage @ Full Throttle - no load- 13.1V
DC Voltage with 2200uF Capacitor and 18 Watt LED using the "Watt's UP" meter
DC Voltage @ Idle - 2200uF Capacitor and 18 Watt LED- 9.57V
DC Voltage @ Mid Throttle - 2200uF Capacitor and 18 Watt LED- 11.85V
DC Voltage @ Full Throttle - 2200uF Capacitor and 18 Watt LED- 15.45V
DC Watts with 2200uF Capacitor and 18 Watt LED using the "Watt's UP" meter
DC Watts @ Idle - 2200uF Capacitor and 18 Watt LED- 5.7 Watts (.59 Amps)
DC Watts @ Mid Throttle - 2200uF Capacitor and 18 Watt LED- 11.4 Watts (1.04 Amps)
DC Watts @ Full Throttle - 2200uF Capacitor and 18 Watt LED- 15.2 Watts (1.016 Amps)
 
#972 ·
Troy-Bilt Storm Tracker 2690 XP - Cree LED Lights

Hey there... I posed on 2 previous threads that I was planning to do this LED upgrade.
After a few false starts, I finished it this weekend.

Thank you to everyone for posting your thoughts and for MnP40c (and others) for detailed descriptions.
I used the same 18W Cree lights from Amazon that others have used http://a.co/ddMuz2I
This switch: http://a.co/272sWH7
These capacitors (2x): http://a.co/8Ho4UFI
This rectifier: http://a.co/78hWEoq
These fuses: http://a.co/7Sifncg
If you're like me... this was my first project of this kind... I had nothing... no wire, no connectors, no crimpers, no experience. Anyway, I bought wire, electrical tape, connectors, etc... probably paid more than I should have for those. Anyway...

Here are my results:

Mount:
Image


Wiring-side
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Lights
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Lighting up my garage... all lights off.
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A little video of it running.
 
#1,114 ·
I've used the snowblower several times now and love the LED upgrade. I'd really like to add a second light, on the left side of the machine. I see a number of people are running 2 lights. Are there any extra modifications needed? Or can I just wire it in to my other light? Is there any chance of overloading the system?

Thanks!
 
#978 ·
09 MTD Gold 28" 357cc

Hey guys, got another LED install.

This is my first snowblower I ever bought, a christmas gift for my dad in 09. I wasn't much of a snow blower connoisseur.
But I knew i wanted a large machine with a big motor and this thing fit the bill. Ive used it more then he has over the years. Its been a good machine.

2009 28" MTD Gold w/ 357cc Powermore
Factory Headlight and Heated Handgrips.
Based on numbers the lighting coil is rated 30watts or greater.

Fluke 365 Meter
Image



Bridge Rectifier Assembly
8amp 50v full bridge rectifier
(1) 2200ÎĽF 25v capacitor

I kept it simple and small. I was shooting for a compact and clean setup.

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1683 Bulb 28watt(1.02amp) @ 28V

Stock Light
Loaded --- Volts --- Amps _____ Unloaded --- Volts --- Amps
Idle --- 12.5vac --- 0.7amps _____ Idle --- 12.7vac --- n/a
Full --- 19.0vac --- 0.8amps _____ Full --- 20.0vac --- n/a


18w LED 10-32volts

-------- Volts --- Amps
Idle --- 13.9vdc --- 0.9amps
Full --- 22.3vdc --- 0.7amps


27w LED 10-32v

--------- Volts --- Amps
Idle --- 11.0vdc --- 1.8amps
Full --- 19.2vdc --- 1.5amps

I went with the 18w fixture, and omitted the factory light. Just don't need more then this one light, my parents driveway has decent lighting. Position was a tough call. I thought about the top of the auger housing but The EOD snow berm can get much taller then the bucket if its a big storm. Decided on the Factoryish spot.

Image


I really liked the red down facing marker lights I put on my honda so I added one to the MTD. You can also see how well the rectifier box box is mounted. wedged in perfectly with just a single screw to secure in place.

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I got a couple other modifications to do to before I'm done with it.
 
#979 · (Edited)
My final O-scope reading are attached.
No Capacitor - Voltage swing 0 to 16 volts.
1 ea. 1000uF Capacitor - Voltage swing 7 to 15.7 volts.
1 ea. 2200uF Capacitors - Voltage swing 10 to 15.7 volts.
2 ea. 2200uF Capacitors - Voltage swing 14 to 15.7 volts.
Using 1 ea. 2200uF Cap. Flicker was noticeable at full speed. Very noticeable at idle.
Using 2 ea. 2200uF Caps. in parallel. There was no flicker at full speed. Very little flicker at idle.


I think you would be safe and not fry your LED light using 1 ea. 2200uF capacitor. I would not use anything less.
It appears that the two 2200uf Capacitors in parallel is the best option.
 
#983 ·
Thanks for those scope readings!

On my next install I’ll see if I can squeeze 2 2200uf capacitors in that little box. Even though most LED fixtures are rated for 10-32v and the drop it landing at 10v it’s always better to air on the side of caution.
True, my LED fixture was an AutoZone rated 12 - 24V.
Now all I need to do is find a project box to tidy every thing up like you guys.:wink2:
 
#985 ·
My only qualm with that pre assembled bridge rectifier is does it have a capacitor build into it. I didn’t see anything about it I’m the description.

Jonied has shown the voltage drop between sine peaks can get lower then minimum voltage specs for the led. This could prematurely burn out the light.

Consensus seems like 1 2200uf capacitor good, 2 2200uf capacitors best.
 
#989 ·
Bridge Rectifier with or without Capacitors? LED Damage?



So I reached out ot the guy who builds the Amazon device. Here is what he said.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Message from 3rd party seller:
Hi Xxxx,

The short answer is that this won't cause any appreciable degradation in reliability.
Quick background so you don't think I am pulling this out of my butt. :) My training is in
integrated circuit design. Did that for 7 years down in Silicon Valley. Then moved on
to designing telecommunication systems before jumping off and doing my own thing. So I
am very familiar with this topic.

There is a minimum voltage required to turn on a LED, the foward bias voltage. The LED
is ON when it has this voltage or higher. And it's off when doesn't have this voltage.
There's also the concept of "reverse bias". LED is in "reverse bias"
if it experiences negative voltage across the leads. Reverse biasing a LED, will cause
damage. This is why you don't want to run an AC voltage on it. While the LED will turn
on (during the positive cycle of the AC sinewave), its reliability suffers due to what is
called junction breakdown. If it were made better (like a normal diode meant to experience
this type of reverse biasing, such as those in a rectifier bridge), then the reliability
won't suffer. But LED are not made to tolerate reverse bias. My experience is that
these LED strips you find on Amazon die after about 300hr of operating on AC voltage (I
only tried one such experiment so your mileage might vary a little).

Anyway. Back to the question at hand. A rectifier produces only positive voltages for
the LED....that's the whole point. So no issue here with reverse biasing and such.
Without the voltage smoothing capacitor, the LED will be OFF very briefly, at 60Hz, as
the sinewave dips below the forward bias voltage. Search for "EDH Lighting" on
youtube and you'll see my video about that. Your question really boils down to
"Does rapidly turning on/off a LED damage it". The answer is no. Think about
your computer. It's operating a GHz. The circuits inside the computer are turning on
and off at GHz. No damage. It's just the nature of semiconductors...they are meant to
operate like that. I've had these LED lights in my yard for over 2 years running off my
device. No issues.

That said, all LEDs do have a rated lifetime. I believe LED die generally due to a
process called electromigration. This is where the metal inside the LED gets worn thin
and eventually break just due to use (ie, having current running through those metal).
Turning the circuit on/off quickly doesn't speed up this failure process.

Hope that all makes sense.