Snowblower Forum banner

1 - 20 of 67 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I had my six year old Ariens Platinum 24 blower tuned up this past summer. It was in pretty good shape. The tech who serviced it drained the gas and added some tru fuel and told me to not add any more reg gas until I was ready to use it for the first snow. I kind of like what I have been reading about the 4 cycle tru fuel and was wondering if there is any reason, besides cost, of using it exclusively. Ignoring cost does anyone do this and not use regular gas? Are there any cons of doing it. I can get a case of 6 32 oz cans at Home Depot for $40. I am not sure of the snow blowers gas tank capacity. I think it is less then a 1/2 gallon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,702 Posts
What is that, like 14.00 a gallon with tax? I have no need, nor a desire for that.

There is quite a few posts on gas, and seems that most use regular gas with additives in it.

Some drain and run the system dry for off season.

Me personally, I just park my equipment in off season with its treated reg. gas, and might fire it up if I think of it. I have never had a fuel system problem in all my equipment doing it this way. I have on the other hand repaired many units with gunked up carburetors from people using the ethanol gas with no additives and letting them sit for very long periods.

My generator gets fired up periodically, and it is about time to drain that tank, and put in fresh reg. with my additives.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
I don't see a reason to spend the extra money. Personally, I just stabilize any gas I buy for lawn / snow equipment immediately when I buy it, whether it has ethanol or not. At the end of the season for each piece of equipment, I fire it up, close the fuel shutoff, wait a few seconds and then stall it out with a spray of fogging oil into the carb. Then top off the fuel tank. That draws down the amount of fuel in the float bowl a bit, coats everything in fogging oil and minimizes the airspace in the fuel tank for condensation to occur.

I've never had anything not run just fine on the 6+ month old fuel at the start of the next season. Occasionally some equipment will need a short shot of carb cleaner into the intake before it'll start the first time depending on how well coated the spark plug, etc. is with fogging oil. But once it fires, it just burns off with a little smoke and then everything is good to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,489 Posts
do you have access to ethanol free gas around you? that is usually the best and cheapest way go if it is available. it is still recommended that you drain it and run it dry at the end of the season but at least it will still usually keeps your carb protected. i would assume tru fuel likely has the same issue as the ethanol free. looses it flammability with age which makes it a bit harder to start an engine but at least it won't clog up a carb if left unchecked.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
I had my six year old Ariens Platinum 24 blower tuned up this past summer. It was in pretty good shape. The tech who serviced it drained the gas and added some tru fuel and told me to not add any more reg gas until I was ready to use it for the first snow. I kind of like what I have been reading about the 4 cycle tru fuel and was wondering if there is any reason, besides cost, of using it exclusively. Ignoring cost does anyone do this and not use regular gas? Are there any cons of doing it. I can get a case of 6 32 oz cans at Home Depot for $40. I am not sure of the snow blowers gas tank capacity. I think it is less then a 1/2 gallon.
I used to stabilize all my fuel with Lucas Ethanol Fuel Conditioner (https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-treatments/safeguard-ethanol-fuel-conditioner-with-stabilizers) but I stopped about a year ago. I'm now able to get 89-octane ethanol free fuel at one of my local Wawa so that is what I use exclusively now. It's only .25 more per gallon, super reasonable.

$2.99 = 89 ethanol
$3.24 = 89 non-ethanol

And yes, I've tested both fuels for ethanol using a "Briggs & Stratton 795161 Gasohol Tester." Ethanol free does indeed appear to be ethanol free.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
639 Posts
On a side note, project farm on YouTube did a test with different gas types and Lucas stabilizer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,489 Posts
On a side note, project farm on YouTube did a test with different gas types and Lucas stabilizer
that is how i learned the gas seems to loose some of its flammability with age whether it is ethanol free or not but ethanol free gas seems to do a bit better than the rest not loosing whatever evaporates or separates with the ethanol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
404 Posts
I just picked up 10 gallons of VP 4 cycle non-ethanol 94 octane fuel for my generator. Even with the special deal I got, it is still outrageously expensive. There are places downeast that pump it for prices similar to what Nafterclifen mentioned, but I haven't found one close enough yet. Given that we lost power for two days during the last storm, I wanted to get some in the tank so as not to worry about water absorption.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
848 Posts
Most people don't know that "Tru-Fuel" is just non ethanol pump gasoline with fuel stabilizers added to it, nothing more, and the price they charge for it is outrageous.
You figure at $10-$15 a gallon, its a lot cheaper to find a gas station that sells non ethanol and add your own stabilizer to it for a lot less money if you figure what it cost per gallon including the cost of a bottle of stabilizer, and mix it yourself, you are saving a lot of money.
If you use up your fuel fast enough and are always buying new fuel, you are better off just buying regular pump gas with or without ethanol and adding stabilizer to it just in case the machine might sit for a long time without being run.
It doesn't last any longer than regular pump gas with stabilizer added to it when its sitting in your snowblowers fuel tank. It only lasts longer when it remains in the sealed container that it comes in when you buy it and not opening the can to let air into it.
When it gets old, it can still leave varnish and deposits in the carburetor if it sits in it for a long time, the same as regular gas with stabilizers in it. Both of those will last longer than non stabilized fuel because the stabilizer helps to keep the atoms in the molecules of the gasoline from breaking apart and splitting away from certain other atoms that make up the molecules of the gasoline. When they split up and separate and combine with other atoms, they form molecules of sludge/varnish and what is left does not want to burn properly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,489 Posts
If you use up your fuel fast enough and are always buying new fuel, you are better off just buying regular pump gas with or without ethanol and adding stabilizer to it just in case the machine might sit for a long time without being run.
It doesn't last any longer than regular pump gas with stabilizer added to it when its sitting in your snowblowers fuel tank. It only lasts longer when it remains in the sealed container that it comes in when you buy it and not opening the can to let air into it.
When it gets old, it can still leave varnish and deposits in the carburetor if it sits in it for a long time, the same as regular gas with stabilizers in it. Both of those will last longer than non stabilized fuel because the stabilizer helps to keep the atoms in the molecules of the gasoline from breaking apart and splitting away from certain other atoms that make up the molecules of the gasoline. When they split up and separate and combine with other atoms, they form molecules of sludge/varnish and what is left does not want to burn properly.
have you watched project farm's video about fuels and stabilizer? it really doesn't seem like the stabilizer did much and that you are better off running ethanol free if it is readily available. ethanol free even seems to last better than e10 with stabilizer. it also prevents rubber parts from hardening which may not be an issue with snowblowers but pretty big deal in stuff like chainsaws, trimmers and blowers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
848 Posts
have you watched project farm's video about fuels and stabilizer? it really doesn't seem like the stabilizer did much and that you are better off running ethanol free if it is readily available. ethanol free even seems to last better than e10 with stabilizer. it also prevents rubber parts from hardening which may not be an issue with snowblowers but pretty big deal in stuff like chainsaws, trimmers and blowers.
Yes I saw the video and from experience it just isn't worth the extra money for me.
Those little engines on two strokes will suffer more with the ethanol because they didn't put the parts in the carburetors to withstand the effects of the ethanol yet, and the metals used in the engines, and older larger engines are effected by it.
Most of your newer and larger engines have been built to handle the ethanol a lot better now.
You would think that Non Ethanol gas should be a lot less expensive because of the cost of the Ethanol itself.
Do you remember how much they raised the price of gas when they started to add Ethanol to the gas?
Someone is ripping us off by the price increase because of the Ethanol, or they are really ripping us off by selling the gas without it when you think about it.
If they raised the price because of it being added, you would think they would lower the price by not adding it, so somebody is making money off of it.
I would rather see them take Ethanol out of gasoline all together and give us back regular non ethanol fuel again so we don't have to put up with all the problems caused by it and regain better fuel mileage in our automobiles again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I appreciate all the people who have chimed in to respond to my inquiry. I was not familiar with this product and was curious about it. As I mentioned in my post I knew it was costly but was wondering if it benefits outweighed that drawback. I estimated I could get 3 tank fulls on a case of six assuming the the Ariens tank was roughly a 1/2 gallon. In most seasons that is enough for me so $40 for a year was not a scary number. Anyway I will stick with gas. Thank you all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,489 Posts
Yes I saw the video and from experience it just isn't worth the extra money for me.
Those little engines on two strokes will suffer more with the ethanol because they didn't put the parts in the carburetors to withstand the effects of the ethanol yet, and the metals used in the engines, and older larger engines are effected by it.
Most of your newer and larger engines have been built to handle the ethanol a lot better now.

You would think that Non Ethanol gas should be a lot less expensive because of the cost of the Ethanol itself.
Do you remember how much they raised the price of gas when they started to add Ethanol to the gas?
Someone is ripping us off by the price increase because of the Ethanol, or they are really ripping us off by selling the gas without it when you think about it.
If they raised the price because of it being added, you would think they would lower the price by not adding it, so somebody is making money off of it.
I would rather see them take Ethanol out of gasoline all together and give us back regular non ethanol fuel again so we don't have to put up with all the problems caused by it and regain better fuel mileage in our automobiles again.
it is worth the whole $10/year or less more to me but i guess i get to see a lot more of the issue fixing other peoples stuff every spring and fall. you can rebuild 2 stroke carbs and still not be compatible with ethanol. walbro only started releasing a kit that is suppose to be ethanol resistant about 2 years ago. most of the new small engines are also more prone to having their carb clogged up buy ethanol residue because of the tight emissions standards and making the jets and passages so small. those new briggs plastic carbs are starting to be know for being replaced or needing the main jet drilled out to fix them and make them run again.

i was always under the impression they put ethanol in the gas to make it cheaper. i would be all for getting rid of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,702 Posts
" Why is ethanol in our gas?

Fuel ethanol is used to enhance the octane rating of gasoline. To put that simply, higher octane gas resists detonation, so it burns rather than exploding. But raising the octane level of gasoline is expensive; that’s why premium fuel costs more than regular. Adding ethanol reduces the tendency of low-grade gasoline to detonate, enabling our national fleet to run on crappier gas.

There’s also a political angle. Ethanol is generally made from corn, crop waste, wood chips, or sugarcane. Much of the biomass used to make ethanol is grown in politically important states. Iowa, for example, can trace $5 billion in the state’s economy and 47,000 jobs directly to corn-based ethanol. Until this year, virtually every presidential candidate to win the Iowa caucuses since 1980 had pledged to support the continued mandate for ethanol in our fuel.

It’s no surprise that ethanol in U.S. gasoline is mandated by Congress. It started with the 1990 Clean Air Act and then in 2005, Congress passed the Renewable Fuel Standard that created minimum levels for the use of renewable fuels. In 2007, Congress raised the renewable fuel standard targets to 36 billion gallons by 2022. By 2014, 13 billion gallons of ethanol were being mixed into the U.S. gasoline supply every year.

Fuel ethanol has also become a major U.S. export, peaking at 30 million barrels per year in 2011 and holding steady at about 20 million barrels per year since 2014. Most exported ethanol goes to Brazil, Canada, China, India, and South Korea. "
Bottom line, its all about the votes and the money …. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
I usually add mystery marvel oil to every gas can. I run the engine dry during the off season. It also prevents me from starting and messing with the machine knowing there is no gas in it. The more you mess and care for it the more like u'll break it .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Lifespan of fuel is massively impacted by how well vented the storage environment is. The better sealed the tank or container is, the better the fuel will last (less volatile compounds escaping, less moisture getting in). This applies to stabilized or not as well as ethanol or not. Personally, I've burned stabilized E10 up to about 9 months old in lawn equipment and a year old in boats with no issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,489 Posts
pure-gas.org is the definitive list of ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada.
my biggest issue with that website is it is user updated which is not always accurate. it is not like all pumps are clearly marked and it feels like it is slowly getting harder to find stuff that is clearly marked. i know even the station i usually buy from has new pumps and don't have any stickers on them yet about the ethanol content but hoping they will eventually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
848 Posts
it is worth the whole $10/year or less more to me but i guess i get to see a lot more of the issue fixing other peoples stuff every spring and fall. you can rebuild 2 stroke carbs and still not be compatible with ethanol. walbro only started releasing a kit that is suppose to be ethanol resistant about 2 years ago. most of the new small engines are also more prone to having their carb clogged up buy ethanol residue because of the tight emissions standards and making the jets and passages so small. those new briggs plastic carbs are starting to be know for being replaced or needing the main jet drilled out to fix them and make them run again.

i was always under the impression they put ethanol in the gas to make it cheaper. i would be all for getting rid of it.
Hi C.W.
For us it would end up costing in the thousands of $$$ with the amount of fuel we go through in a season. I get to see the damage caused by ethanol on a daily basis in those little Zama and Walbro carbs.
They have been building them to be more resistant to the effects of it for a couple years now, but up to 10% ethanol. You never know how much is put in the tanker truck at the loading depot before it is delivered to the gas station's storage tanks.
One of the biggest problems now is the "Salts" created by the ethanol corroding the metals now and not as much "Varnish" as in the past before ethanol.
Ethanol is a strong solvent that actually helped clean the varnish and leave less carbon build-up in the combustion chamber, but did a lot of other damage.
The ethanol is basically used for 2 main things, an "Oxygenator" and a "Filler" to take up space so we have less volume of gasoline, therefore we wouldn't be using as much gas and to make it burn cleaner. But we get less fuel mileage out of it so we are using more of it to go the same distance, plus all the fuel being burned to farm it and distill it to produce it in the first place.
You are correct about the smaller fuel jets to make things run leaner and clogging easier.
You mentioned about those Briggs plastic carbs. Those things are junk to say the least. They crack and do not hold up to the vibrations of a small engine.
They were originally made for weight savings and to be compatible with ethanol so they wouldn't corrode, plus using recycled plastic. Briggs had a problem with them and with the plastic fuel tanks which were recalled because of them dissolving, not from ethanol, but from some of the ingredients in the gasoline.
The gasoline was breaking them down and emulsifying them, then when the fuel sat in the carburetor bowl, it would re-emulsify and leave those little white plastic specks. That wasn't caused by the ethanol, it was caused by the gasoline. Briggs finally realized the problem they were having with the plastic, along with a couple of other manufacturers, and they had to change the type of plastic they were using. I have some of the service bulletins from Briggs about that.
I still think we should go back to the old way they used to make gasoline, back in the "Leaded" days, then we wouldn't be having the problems we have today with all the "Oxygenated" fuels that are available today.
You figure crude oil was made from plants that rotted away in the ground for a couple million years, now they take the plant and try to make fuel out of it right away instead of waiting a few million years, and what do we get out of it? - Ethanol,,, and headaches from the problems it causes because it hasn't been perfected yet.
I am not a fan of ethanol.
 
1 - 20 of 67 Posts
Top