[LakesNwoods]

Yes, as long as both are either Net or Gross. Of course, the quoted Max Torque and Max HP for most engines are at different RPMs. For example:

The Honda GX390 engine has the following horsepower and torque specifications:

• Net power: 11.7 horsepower (8.7 kilowatts) at 3,600 revolutions per minute (RPM)
• Net torque: 19.5 pound-feet (26.5 Newton meters) at 2,500 RPM

If you whip out your trusty calculator, you'll see that Net HP @ 2500RPM = 9.28 and Net Torque @ 3600RPM = 17.07 pound-feet.
View attachment 236417

I was hoping so so that I can gage this standard. The LCTs are mostly at 3000-3100 range

 

[CCRAW]

looking at the spec sheet for the Rato engine it shows the 301 engine getting 12hp@3600 rpm while the 306 LCT engine is 10hp@3600 rpm. how do they get 2 more hp out of a smaller displacement engine?

You are stepping into the rabbit hole I’ve been in. For starters, cylinder design/size, different intakes/airflow, exhaust/exhaust flow, compression ratio, carb. The list goes on.
I imagine that torque is fairly important in a snowblower too. I’m sure there are more knowledgeable people here that can say. But more HPs + more torque = more Horsetorques = more fun (until it starts breaking the mechanicals it’s attached to) but, hey, that’s what racing is about. Sorry I forgot we are talking snowblowers.

 

[dehn.jim]

Here it is.

Model R300S on the emissions label is a Rato engine.

 

[pchalpin]

Interesting. I’ve used it 4 times but only up to 6”.
So far, the 301 always starts in two or less pulls, idles smooth, and shoots snow wherever I want. (I’m figuring out choke position coming out of a heated garage).
Side note - poly shoes changed the game on my asphalt driveway.
Anyway, if it doesn’t want to handle the big stuff when it comes, the engine will eventually get mods or replaced. I like the machine so far.

Hi:
Please tell me what type of poly shoes you got and where you got them. Thanks

 

[CCRAW]

Hi:
Please tell me what type of poly shoes you got and where you got them. Thanks

I bought cheap Amazon China shoes just to see if they work. I’m sure they won’t last long but who knows. I can’t post a link so you’ll have to copy and paste.

Amazon.com

 

[eurodin]

I don't know what is worse Toro or Ariens.

Toro Let's put a 265cc on a 28" and call it heavy duty.
Toro Let's discontinue the 305CC on the 28".
Toro Let's discontinue the 265CC and put in in a 252CC and call it heavy duty.
Ariens Let's put a light all the way in the back.
Ariens Let's introduce EFI only to get rid of the EFI.
Ariens Let's not make a 28" in a platinum verision.
Ariens Let's put two lights on our machines and upcharge.
Honda Let's not make a higherpowered 28"
Toro Let's not make a highpowered 24"

Anyone else feel my pain? Or are these 1st world problems.

 

[rslifkin]

I don't know what is worse Toro or Ariens.

Toro Let's put a 265cc on a 28" and call it heavy duty.
Toro Let's discontinue the 305CC on the 28".
Toro Let's discontinue the 265CC and put in in a 252CC and call it heavy duty.
Ariens Let's put a light all the way in the back.
Ariens Let's introduce EFI only to get rid of the EFI.
Ariens Let's not make a 28" in a platinum verision.
Ariens Let's put two lights on our machines and upcharge.
Honda Let's not make a higherpowered 28"
Toro Let's not make a highpowered 24"

Anyone else feel my pain? Or are these 1st world problems.

Outside of the highest end, most expensive machines, pretty much every brand is building what they think they can sell the most of, and what they can build for a price enough people are willing to pay. But that means that a lot of what they build doesn't always perfectly match what those of us that are picky and have high expectations would want.

Heck, I think it's a little crazy that nobody puts more than 13 hp on any of their 32 or 36 inch blowers as an option. I have that much power on my 28 and I've never once thought I'd want less, and plenty of times I've said I wouldn't mind a bit more so I could work faster. It's crossed my mind a few times to hunt down a hydro drive 32 and put one of the Predator v-twins on it.

 

[Ziggy65]

I don't know what is worse Toro or Ariens.

Toro Let's put a 265cc on a 28" and call it heavy duty.
Toro Let's discontinue the 305CC on the 28".
Toro Let's discontinue the 265CC and put in in a 252CC and call it heavy duty.
Ariens Let's put a light all the way in the back.
Ariens Let's introduce EFI only to get rid of the EFI.
Ariens Let's not make a 28" in a platinum verision.
Ariens Let's put two lights on our machines and upcharge.
Honda Let's not make a higherpowered 28"
Toro Let's not make a highpowered 24"

Anyone else feel my pain? Or are these 1st world problems.

Toro
I would agree that Toro naming their residential duty snow blowers "Power Max" and "Power Max HD" and their commercial line also "Power Max HD, and adding "Commercial" at the end is a little confusing.
The Ariens line of Deluxe, Platinum and Professional is a little less confusing IMHO.

You can get a 420cc engine on a 28" machine in their commercial line of machines if you want more power.

Ariens
Ariens is still offering EFI on select models
Platinum 28 RapidTrak SHO is a 28" machine
One light on a snow blower is sufficient for most users. The fact Ariens does offer additional lights on some higher end models as well as in kit form is not a bad thing IMHO. Of course you would expect to pay extra for them.
You can always add your own lights at a lower cost, but there is still a cost for adding additional lights.

Honda
After seeing videos of Honda machines tackling the deep heavy wet snow (Sierra cement) in the west coast mountains, I see no need for a larger engine on their 28" machines. There is a reason Hondas are the machine of choice out there.



Larger engines have some drawbacks like extra weight, more expensive and increased fuel consumption, but I think most of us would rather have more power than we need that not enough.

 

[bisonp]

A reason for the light on the console is so they can light over the top of stuff better and you can see what's going on with the blower. Many blowers have been that way for decades and I have never had an issue with it. Two lights are better but personally I've never had a need for it.

I have never heard anybody complain about the performance of the Toro 828 and 928 either. Toro sells the 1428 if you want big power.

Like rslifkin said, they are building what they can sell. Ariens has 18 2-stage options by my count, Toro 14. That's already a lot of models. If you have too many there is no way dealers can stock everything each person is looking for.

 

[eurodin]

The problem is the word "think". Toro has one 24" model. Ariens has like about six 24". Makes no sense. They are building to price points and not making a usefull selection.

8-9HP motors will not play well in snow above 6"-8". Yes, I changed my main jet, and raised the RPM. rslifkin said he does not want anything smaller than 13hp on 28" with good reason. If you are in heavy snow or get a lot of snowfall it's not enough power to do the job quickly.

The 1428 is the best value machine has Toro ever made and I think the best in the market segment. I am looking at this, but also looking at Arien's because of the potentially more robust all metal construction. I don't see a direct comparision with the 1428. The pro 28 is quite a bit more pricier, and the deluxe does not compare. So it's a toss between a 2025cc 389cc 24" or the 1428.

I don't know why they don't consolidate 24 and 28 inches into 26 or offer less 24 and more plat. 28.

How is the LED on the console compare to that of the Toro? The Toro LED is very good.

Another reason why I am loooking at Arien's is the chute control. The joystick is not precise as I would like. I don't know how the plastic will last in 10-20 years. I know all first problems.

 

[ChrisJ]

I don't know what is worse Toro or Ariens.

Toro Let's put a 265cc on a 28" and call it heavy duty.
Toro Let's discontinue the 305CC on the 28".
Toro Let's discontinue the 265CC and put in in a 252CC and call it heavy duty.
Ariens Let's put a light all the way in the back.
Ariens Let's introduce EFI only to get rid of the EFI.
Ariens Let's not make a 28" in a platinum verision.
Ariens Let's put two lights on our machines and upcharge.
Honda Let's not make a higherpowered 28"
Toro Let's not make a highpowered 24"

Anyone else feel my pain? Or are these 1st world problems.

It's been my experience that anything that says "Heavy duty" isn't.
Same for "Professional".

 

[bisonp]

The problem is the word "think". Toro has one 24" model. Ariens has like about six 24". Makes no sense. They are building to price points and not making a usefull selection.

8-9HP motors will not play well in snow above 6"-8". Yes, I changed my main jet, and raised the RPM. rslifkin said he does not want anything smaller than 13hp on 28" with good reason. If you are in heavy snow or get a lot of snowfall it's not enough power to do the job quickly.

The 1428 is the best value machine has Toro ever made and I think the best in the market segment. I am looking at this, but also looking at Arien's because of the potentially more robust all metal construction. I don't see a direct comparision with the 1428. The pro 28 is quite a bit more pricier, and the deluxe does not compare. So it's a toss between a 2025cc 389cc 24" or the 1428.

I don't know why they don't consolidate 24 and 28 inches into 26 or offer less 24 and more plat. 28.

How is the LED on the console compare to that of the Toro? The Toro LED is very good.

Another reason why I am loooking at Arien's is the chute control. The joystick is not precise as I would like. I don't know how the plastic will last in 10-20 years. I know all first problems.

Of course everything is built to price points, that's how you sell it. But just because they don't have something specific that you would like doesn't mean they don't have a useful selection. Ariens is the best selling brand after all, you don't get there by offering stuff people don't want.

As far as 8-9 HP "not playing well" in more than 6" of snow, here's a 9 HP Toro in much more than that. Doesn't look to me like it's struggling.

 

[ChrisJ]

Of course everything is built to price points, that's how you sell it. But just because they don't have something specific that you would like doesn't mean they don't have a useful selection. Ariens is the best selling brand after all, you don't get there by offering stuff people don't want.

As far as 8-9 HP "not playing well" in more than 6" of snow, here's a 9 HP Toro in much more than that. Doesn't look to me like it's struggling.

Power debates has been a big thing on this forum and I think a lot of it is many don't realize how machines perform with different snow.
My dad had a 30" White / MTD machine with a 10hp Tec flathead on it for many years and he never had any complaints about it. With his conditions it worked absolutely fine.

I had my 24" Ariens with an 8hp tec and it almost never had enough power for my situation and that was considered the bigger engine for a 24" machine. My dad blows mostly dry fluffy snow and there's absolutely never any salt in it. Even his packed plow piles at the end are usually dry and clean. Mine are a mixture of snow that's been plowed 3 times (3 trucks offset in a row) and mixed with salt and then refroze. The 420cc on the 24" does well with it, but anything less doesn't do good at all. The 8hp used to be a fight just to try and keep the rpms up and if you just tried to walk along you'd stall it. Half a bucket in 1st gear was the only way to use it and very often I had to keep stopping to let it catch up. Obviously as the rpms drop so does power, and even worse impeller speed goes down so now it's just plopping it right next to the machine.


My dad has been using a Ariens Hydropro 32 for I think 10 years now and he absolutely loves it. But a 10hp on a 30" did just fine for him too.

Me.......I need the 420 on a 24" and I'd even consider going bigger, if I thought my Ariens could handle it I'd put a 620 vtwin on it. My machine isn't a snowblower, it's an ice breaker / water pump / Slurpee machine and all I'm after is throwing the stuff 15 feet give or take. Even when it's 20f outside I'm blowing packed slush from all of the salt. My final issue is as it's throwing the playdoe, the weight of it is so much no matter what I do it forces the chute to turn even with the spring as tight as I can get it, so I need to make some kind of actual brake for it.

So when it comes to engine size vs machine size I think there's a huge variation between everyone's conditions and I think my scenario isn't the norm but it is a possible scenario.

 

[rslifkin]

I agree, type of snow is a big factor in how much power you need. A hydro drive may also be able to get away with less power as you have better ability to just go really slow in tough spots, whereas 1st gear with a disc drive is only so slow before you have to start taking partial width passes and doing other things to limit load on the machine.

Power need is also a matter of expectations. In any given snow situation, more power means you should be able to keep moving faster without over-loading the engine. Of course that assumes you've got enough impeller speed to process the incoming snow fast enough and not just overflow the bucket before you're using all of the engine output (in lighter snow processing capacity may be the limit, but in heavy snow you'll usually be power limited instead).

 

[bisonp]

Power debates has been a big thing on this forum and I think a lot of it is many don't realize how machines perform with different snow.
My dad had a 30" White / MTD machine with a 10hp Tec flathead on it for many years and he never had any complaints about it. With his conditions it worked absolutely fine.

I had my 24" Ariens with an 8hp tec and it almost never had enough power for my situation and that was considered the bigger engine for a 24" machine. My dad blows mostly dry fluffy snow and there's absolutely never any salt in it. Even his packed plow piles at the end are usually dry and clean. Mine are a mixture of snow that's been plowed 3 times (3 trucks offset in a row) and mixed with salt and then refroze. The 420cc on the 24" does well with it, but anything less doesn't do good at all. The 8hp used to be a fight just to try and keep the rpms up and if you just tried to walk along you'd stall it. Half a bucket in 1st gear was the only way to use it and very often I had to keep stopping to let it catch up. Obviously as the rpms drop so does power, and even worse impeller speed goes down so now it's just plopping it right next to the machine.


My dad has been using a Ariens Hydropro 32 for I think 10 years now and he absolutely loves it. But a 10hp on a 30" did just fine for him too.

Me.......I need the 420 on a 24" and I'd even consider going bigger, if I thought my Ariens could handle it I'd put a 620 vtwin on it. My machine isn't a snowblower, it's an ice breaker / water pump / Slurpee machine and all I'm after is throwing the stuff 15 feet give or take. Even when it's 20f outside I'm blowing packed slush from all of the salt. My final issue is as it's throwing the playdoe, the weight of it is so much no matter what I do it forces the chute to turn even with the spring as tight as I can get it, so I need to make some kind of actual brake for it.

So when it comes to engine size vs machine size I think there's a huge variation between everyone's conditions and I think my scenario isn't the norm but it is a possible scenario.

Fair points, but at the same time, if nobody makes what you need, a walk behind blower is probably not considered by most people to be the right tool for the job to begin with. Can't really expect them to manufacture specialized machines there is barely any market for.

 

[ChrisJ]

Fair points, but at the same time, if nobody makes what you need, a walk behind blower is probably not considered by most people to be the right tool for the job to begin with. Can't really expect them to manufacture specialized machines there is barely any market for.

Agreed and if anyone did make such a custom thing in small quantities no one could afford it.
That's why I made my own. To make things worse for me, I can't use a 28" either so I need it to be a small 24".

But my point was for some a 9hp 28" is plenty and for others it isn't. Ariens does cover that market fairly well.